In this post, I want you to write two well-developed paragraphs (aka at least 6 sentences each in length) about something in The Joy Luck Club reading or discussion that you want to explore further. This is your chance to write a response on any topic raised in the book or in discussion--choose something that interests you and about which you feel there is more to say. If we didn't talk about it in class today, here's your chance to write about it; if we DID talk about it, then begin your post where our discussion ended and build a deeper reflection on the topic.
One requirement: you must directly reference the text (include a citation--page number is fine) in your response. You must ground your reflection and insights in the text.
A few sample ideas (but again, this list is not exhaustive--there are a million topics you could choose to concentrate on here):
--meaning of a particular chapter's title
--analysis of a particular character
--magical realism
--traditions
--loss
--expectations (pressure?)
--secrets
--the meaning of all the wind references
Your goal here is look so closely as this topic in the text that your post teaches us something and makes us think more deeply than we did before. Go deep about one specific part of the text.
Plot summary and/or repetition of what was discussed in the seminar will be disappointing and thus will result in a disappointing grade. Analyze and draw conclusions; don't summarize.
As always, before you write, read the posted responses so that you don't repeat someone else's response and so that you can reference someone else's response if it relates to your chosen topic.
And of course, revise, edit, and proofread before you post--you won't get a chance to revise this one :-).
(our good discussions inspired me to write my own response...)
ReplyDeleteEvery story in "The Twenty-Six Malignant Gates" deals in some way with the narrator's search for independence. In the opening vignette, the girl "demanded" and "shouted" in response to her mother's guidance before finally rejecting the advice and asserting her own independence by trying to bike around the corner. In "Rules of the Game," Waverly eventually learns how to outmaneuver her mother in the same way she dominates her chess opponent. Lena struggles to distance herself from her haunted mother and actually have a hopeful future in "The Voice from the Wall."
But in "Half and Half," Rose presents another side of independence: tragic consequences. She lets Bing exert his own independence for a second and the entire family is devastated indefinitely. For the first time in the novel, one of the mothers relaxes, lets her children have some independence, and instantly regrets it. An-Mei prays, "You gave us more blessings. And we now have misplaced one of them. We were careless. This is true. We had so many good things, we couldn't keep them in our mind all the time...I have learned this [lesson]" (128). For the Jordans, independence backfired.
I wonder if this is the reason Rose can't think independently. Ironically, it's her own mother who tries to force her to take initiative and save her marriage: "You must think for yourself, what you must do. If someone tells you, then you are not trying" (130). I love this quotation because it directly contradicts what so much of the novel seems to be saying about the relationship between parents and children (that children should be loyal and respectful and obedient). This story suggests there is a point in everyone's life when independence trumps obedience and loyalty--but that the worst action of all is inaction.
In our discussion today in class we talked some about how the mothers in the stories where not at a high enough standard for their children. For example in the in the three stories that we have read this week one mother pushes her child too much, where another lays in bed all day and is depressed, and the last one is just lazy and makes her daughter to all of her work so she “learns” from it. But even with these mothers who don’t help their kids out, the mothers still have very high standards and expectations for their daughters. As I would imagine they would have the all academic and most of the social expectations as every other teenager has, plus their Chinese culture to hold up. Their mothers who have only made their family life unstable are the ones that put all the pressure on them.
ReplyDeleteAlso in my classes discussion someone brought up the idea of rebellion and how the mothers bring it on in this book. There is so much pressure to stay inside the fine lines of their culture and long lasting traditions like for example marring a Chinese boy, like in the story Half and Half “I have to admit what I was initially found attractive in Ted were precisely the things that made him different from the Chinese boys I had dated” (Rose, 117). This proves the point that she wants to be different from the other Chinese girls, and wants to escape the confines of her mom.
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ReplyDeleteI have different page numbers than everyone else.
ReplyDeleteToday in class we talked about a lot of things. There was a specific quote on page 105(for me)that really stood out to me because I could relate to it easily. "I always thought it mattered, to know what is the worst possible thing that can happen to you, to know how you can avoid it, to not be drawn by the magic of the unspeakable." I loved this quote so much because it made me think about what I do. That is so true about me. Whenever I am about to do something, I always think of what the worst possible thing that can happen is. Once I know what it is, I do my best to do better than that or avoid it.
Today in class we talked about the Mom's are very different. One mosh is very obsessive over her daughter that plays chess. In another story, the Mom was all sad and darkened her day by laying in bed all day moping around.
My favorite story was definitely "Rules of the
Game." It intrigued me how they talked about sports and how parents can be so harsh or expect so much of you. I know exactly what they mean because that is my parents. This story was so cool because it talked about chess and how she entered the tournament without telling her parents. I thought this was a little bit risky, but at the same time it was great because she was standing out and doing what she thought was best and doing what she wanted to do.
I wanted to continue on the topic of Lena's mother's baby from "The Voice from the Wall." When we talked about how she kept on bumping her belly, which contained a baby, into everything, we weren't sure why exactly she was doing that. I had a particular reason for that. She might have been doing it to kill her own baby. I believe she was killing her baby because Lena wrote on page 109, "My mother began to bump into things, into table edges as if she forgot her stomach contained a baby, as if she were headed for trouble instead. She did not speak of the joys of having a new baby..."
ReplyDeleteOn page 105 the mother says to her child about a homeless lady, "'She had a baby she didn't want.'" On page 104 Lena states that her mother went through some terrible tragedy. I found it odd how the mother would suddenly say that the homeless lady had a baby she didn't want. She most likely made this up because this happened to herself.
If we connect this to how she was trying to kill her baby, we could say that she was killing her baby because of this past tragedy. The mother was also described to be a paranoid figure, and another reason she might have killed her baby is because she was afraid that terrible dangers would befall on her child.
I want to continue on the topic of American verses Chinese cultures. This book is about Chinese people moving to American so naturally there will be controversies between the cultures and traditions. In “Rules of the Game” Lindo Jong says to Waverly, “This is American rules. Every time people come out from foreign country, must know rules” (94). This statement can pertain to the rules of chess or the rules of society.
ReplyDeleteIn “The Voice from the Wall” I think that because of Lena growing up in America her thoughts are different from her mothers Chinese background. Chinese are perceived as being more peaceful and I think Lena was exposed to more violence in her childhood. As magical realism takes place and Lena believes her neighbor to be beaten and killed, I believe this is partly because of where she was raised. On page 103 “Annh! Why do you Americans have only these morbid thoughts in your mind?”
Continuing on our thoughts in class, in “Half and Half” the idea of fate verses faith is brought up. I think fate and faith pertains to American and Chinese cultures because this demonstrates how the Chinese have more of a belief system and American’s are more decisive and do not let fate determine their lives. In “Half and Half”, An-mei has faith in God and is also concerned with the idea of her daughter with a Chinese boy. I do not think it was a coincidence that both of these ideals were lost and a more American viewpoint was taken.
In our discussion today, we talked in detail about the mother-daughter relationships. After the first read, my opinion was that the moms are just strict and seem to live in their past which has created a tough shell that the mothers wear. After going into detail in the discussion, I see that there is much more to this tough exterior than I thought.
ReplyDeleteAll of the mothers were born and raised in China. They all escaped some kind of hardship. They all left something behind. Although all of the mothers have experienced these things, I think there is something even more important than the shared grief, and that is the communication with their daughters. My moms don't speak good English, and the daughters don't speak good Chinese. They both interpret things in different ways, leading them both in different directions and thoughts. I think that one of the greatest struggles for the daughters is to try to translate what they mean to say to their mothers so it makes sense culturally for them. I think the daughters are lost between the two, trying to balance them both.
Another thing that I think plays a huge role in their relationship is identity. The mothers have this hard exterior that surround them and they come off as harsh and strict. The daughters, on the other hand, were all born in America, and are trying to go back and forth from their American lives and their mother's traditional Chinese ways. I think they are caught up in a world that makes no sense, so it is bound to involve poor communication. Also, I think the mothers are all trying to escape their past, but sometimes slip back and relive their past. They don't understand why their daughters complain when they have it so nice compared to them.
In the stories, "Half and Half" and "The Voice from the Wall", I felt as if both women lost their faith because of their belief in superstitions. They both came to believe that no matter what they did, fate would control them. After her son died in "Half and Half", the mother started to believe "that maybe it was fate all along, that faith was just an illusion that somehow you're in control" (Tan, 121). Even though her son's birth-date corresponded to only one danger, the mother still worried about all of the dangers; she convinced herself that something terrible was going to happen to him instead of having faith that he would be safe.
ReplyDeleteIn the story, "A Voice from the Wall", while it was never said that the mother believed in God, she still should have had faith that her daughter would be alright. Instead, she believed in things that other people couldn't see and that wore off on her daughter who claimed that she "could sense the unspoken terrors that surrounded our house, the ones that chased my mother until she hid in a secret dark corner of her mind" (Tan, 103). Neither of these women could come to terms with the fact that their children would be safe because they were so caught up in their own superstitions. They never truly had faith because they continuously believed in the negative side of fate.
In the graded discussion today, we talked a lot about perspective. The Joy Luck Club takes one through the eyes of a mother fighting a daughter and a daughter fighting a mother. As pointed out by Kate, the daughter has a very good argument. The daughter's side is that the mother is micromanaging her life, and she has no freedom. The mother, as I pointed out, doesn't want her child to go out into the cold world unprepared.
ReplyDeleteOne may say that if you don't give the opportunity to test some real life experiences, you will never learn. Another may say that it only takes one time to cross the line of safe and life threatening, and that experience will change the daughter's life forever. It is an ongoing question not only in the Chinese mother-daughter relationships, but in relationships with everyone and everywhere.
“I began to cry and thought bitterly about my parents’ promise. I wondered why my destiny had been decided, why I should have an unhappy life so someone else could have a happy one” (Tan 58). Lindo, Waverly’s mother, lost her childhood by having an arranged marriage by the age of two. Today in class we didn’t seem to make a connection between the two stories of this mother and daughter. As you can see Lindo thought deeply as to why this sort of thing could be allowed to happen to her, and surely why the people who should love her the most, were simply handing her off to someone. “’Obey your family. Do not disgrace us, act happy when you arrive’” (Tan 54). Lindo’s mother said this to her as she gave her one of her necklaces made out of red jade, encouraging her to act as if everything was fine when she showed up on the doorstep of Huang Taitai and Tyan-yu’s house. Eventually, the marriage ended. However, the life in which Lindo lived including an unhappy marriage and the feeling of being betrayed by her family has a lot to do with her “obsession” over her daughter’s chess career. As we discussed today it was almost as if Waverly’s mother was trying to live through her as she bragged at the market, taking pride in the fact she was the mother of a chess champ. I personally believe Lindo was doing what her mother never did do for herself and so then wasn’t able to support her in her own personal endeavors. While I can agree that she shouldn’t have announced her daughter’s success in public, I do think in her own way she is proud of Waverly and that her intention were well founded
ReplyDeleteWhat I find most interesting about the Joy Luck Club so far is an interesting idea from the story “Half and Half” by Rose Hsu Jordan. We only discussed this for a few minutes in class and I wanted to expand on the core meaning. Rose and her mother have quite an interesting relationship. It seems to prevail during their first beach adventure after traveling to America from China. Rose is told by her mother to, “Take care of them”(123). Her mother was referring to her four younger brothers- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Bing. Long story short, Rose got her eye off the youngest and he disappeared. This event affected Rose more than she ever thought was possible. It made her ability to make decisions especially difficult. I find it interesting that one event can affect our lives forever.
ReplyDeleteThe reason that Rose and her husband eventually had problems was because of her inability to think for herself. Rose said, “I never believed there was ever any one right answer, yet there were many wrong ones” (120). She couldn’t make up her mind on anything and that was the reason of her latter divorce. This story puts the power of fate into perspective for me as well. “ I just let it happen. And I think now that fate is shaped half by expectation, half by inattention. But somehow, when you lose something you love, faith takes over” (131). This was my favorite quote from the short story. It intertwines ones decision making with the power of fate itself. I believe in making decisions for yourself, and I believe Rose would be much happier if she had done the same.
Just kidding I forgot to add a quote
ReplyDeleteIn the graded discussion today, we talked a lot about perspective. The Joy Luck Club takes one through the eyes of a mother fighting a daughter and a daughter fighting a mother. As pointed out by Kate, the daughter has a very good argument. The daughter's side is that the mother is micromanaging her life, and she has no freedom. The mother, as I pointed out, doesn't want her child to go out into the cold world unprepared.
One may say that if you don't give the opportunity to test some real life experiences, you will never learn. Another may say that it only takes one time to cross the line of safe and life threatening, and that experience will change the daughter's life forever. It says on page 87 in the short story, "It is in a book, The Twenty Six Malignant gates, all the bad things happen to you outside the protection of this house." It is an ongoing question not only in the Chinese mother-daughter relationships, but in relationships with everyone and everywhere.
I thought it was interesting how the story on page 87 ties in with the ones that we read. The story on page 87 states that sometimes you have got to listen to and respect your elders, for they are wiser and have had more experience. The daughters in the stories we read have the same personalities that of the girl in the other story. All of them are girls who think they know it all, and are trying to step out of the shoes of their parents and fit in to their own that they have made for themselves. An example of this is with Waverly throughout all of page 99; one instance, when she says "I wish you wouldn't do that, telling everybody I'm your daughter." She is trying to loosen the strong bond between her and her mother, and is trying to pave and create a new chapter in her life; she is at the "coming of age" phase in her life.
ReplyDeleteI also would have liked to discuss more and expand on the concept of the symbol in "Rules of the Game", invisible strength. I liked how Waverly connected invisible strength, which symbolizes rules and knowledge, into chess: "I discovered that for the whole game one must gather invisible strengths and see the endgame before the game begins" (94). Chess, like life, has many rules. And you can either choose to follow them, or go by your own. I believe that Waverly is starting to provide and follow her own set of rules, just like the other girls in the other two stories. Invisible strength is like the wind that her mother talks about all the time; although you may not see it, it's strong and it's definitely there.
Although we haven't touched on this theme in class today, I noticed that in all three stories of The Twenty-six Malignant Gates, Amy Tan is trying to convey a hidden message within the lines, and I believe that message is identity and refuge.
ReplyDeleteI did not see it instantly, but as I started looking throughout the stories, I noticed details in between the lines. In the first story, Rules of the Games, I feel that Waverly, although she grew up in America, is trying to find her identity. If we think about it, she is torn between two worlds, her Chinese value and traditions that she learnt from her mother, and the the traditions Waverly grew up to know in America. I feel in China, everyone has this mindset of "you are destined to be..." but in America it's "you have the opportunity to be..." So, I believe that Waverly found her uniqueness in chess, she liked it and I felt the reason why she liked it so much was because it was a way to find out who she really was.
In the second story, I feel it was the opposite in some cases. In the beginning of "Voices of the Wall," I found out that Lena's mother had a terrible tragedy in China. Only to be renamed completely to Betty St. Clair and changed her birth year. "My father proudly named her in her immigration papers:Betty St. Clair, crossing out her given name of Gu Ying-ying. And then put the wrong birth year, 1916 instead of 1914" (104). But also I feel that her past is what shaped her, and it can never be left behind. How she did have a son in China but supposedly died. That was her integrity, and she left it all behind.
Finally in the third story, it wasn't much of an identity issue more than it was refuge. I feel that the mother had so much pain inside of her when Bing died. Although she says that she lost her faith, towards the end Rose explains how her mother still has her Bible. "...she still pays attention to it. That Bible under the table, I know she sees it" (131). When I read that, I got the impression that although she was hurt, towards the ends she still finds refuge in the Bible, something that gives her hope.
Before our discussion ended today, Mrs. Gahan briefly noted how ironic it was that most of the mothers of "The Joy Luck Club" had been married back in China before they came to America and met their current husbands. Rose Hsu Jordan's marriage has fallen apart, and she and Ted are getting a divorce. As Rose plans to tell her mother An-mei, she fears the worst knowing that her mother will be unhappy with their decision. "When I tell her, I know she's going to say, 'This cannot be.' And when I say that it is certainly true...I know what else she will say: 'Then you must save it'" (116). I understand how mothers want their daughters to be more successful and happier than them. But the fact that some of the mothers had been able to escape their unhappiness, and they don't want their daughters to have that same freedom, struck me as cynical. Personally, I would rather my daughter leave what isn't making her happy than sit around hating her husband.
ReplyDeleteThis scenario reminds me of something my mom always tells me: "Do as I say, not as I do." Whether she is sending a quick text while driving, or anything else, my mom makes sure to remind me not to do that. I find this uncool. Our mothers are supposed to be our role models, people we can mirror. Just because they tell us not to, doesn't mean we wont. Because of this, I relate with Rose's anger as she tries to explain to her mother her reasoning for leaving Ted. Our parents are trying to provide the best for us, so I understand why my mom and An-mei could say things like that. But I think there should be a boundary as to what mothers have control of.
I thought that the discussion in class we had today was very strong and I caught many new ideas and concepts that I hadn't picked up in my own reading. It was very beneficial for me. The most interesting topic that we briefly touched on in class today was the personalities and nature of the mothers. As I was reading these last three chapters, I noticed that the mothers all have different personalities in ways that they raise their daughters. For example, the mother from "The Rules of the Game" was almost too overbearing and pushing her daughter to play more. The mother wanted publicity for her daughter, but took it a little to far because her daughter eventually ended up running away. The mother from "The Voice from the Wall" was very focused on delivering the baby and rearranging the new house so that it would fit the baby's needs. More of her attention was diverted to superstitious things by keeping everything in balance so that no misfortunes would fall upon the baby. Lastly, the mother from "Half and Half" was very nonchalant and relaxed about where her kids where and what they were doing. As a result, she ends up losing one of her kids.
ReplyDeleteThe part that leaves me pondering is why is Amy Tan doing this? Is there supposed to be some sort of message behind the different stories? The message that i received was that no matter what type of nature each mother has, they are all trying to connect them to their Chinese roots and make sure that they never forget them. I think that mothers are letting them know that they can be american, but they can never forget their origin or roots. In "The Rules of the Game" page 94, the mother tells her daughter, "This American rules. Every time people come out from foreign country, must know rules." To me, this shows that the mother doesn't believe in American traditions and the way they do things. She is complaining about how everything was so easy in China and now they have to adapt to these new American ways. Overall, I kind of think that the mothers are slightly paranoid about moving to this new country and some are taking extreme measures to make sure nothing bad happens to their families.
One of the themes that our class discoursed over was a theme of hope in Half and Half. Although it seems as though it is a bleak story, one that shows nothing but pain within a family and failed relationships there are numerous signs that they believe that things will take a turn for the better. This sense of hope; however, was not portrayed by Rose, but instead it was shown by her mother An-Mei.
ReplyDeleteThe first sign of hope occurs at the very beginning of the section “As proof of her faith, my mother used to carry a small leatherette Bible when she went to the First Chinese Baptist Church every Sunday. But later, after my mother lost her faith in God, that leatherette Bible wound up wedged under a too-short table leg… It’s been there twenty years… My mother is not the best housekeeper in the world, and after all these years that Bible is still clean white” (Amy Tan, 116). This shows that no matter what happens to here she is bound and determined to keep her faith. I think she does this because it is a steady point in her life; it is an area that no matter what will always be there for her. Another proof of An-Mei’s hope is on page 131 “On the page before the New Testament begins, there’s a section called ‘Deaths,’ and that’s where she wrote ‘Bing Hsu’ lightly, in erasable pencil” (Amy Tan, 131). This shows how devoted she is to her son. No matter how long they have been searching, she is always waiting, always hoping, that Bing would find his way home.
I believe that we left out an important subject that was not discussed due to our lack of time; it was about the great grandfather’s story. “I used to play out the beggar’s last moments over and over again in my head. In my mind, I saw the executioner strip off the man’s shirt and lead him into the open yard. ‘”this traitor is sentenced to death’” (102). What surprised me the most was that at the beginning of the story it says that Lena was a little girl. I am pretty sure when I was a little boy my thoughts didn’t consist of my grandfather sentencing a beggar to a death of a thousand cuts. Her mother even said that she believed her thoughts were too intense. My thoughts consisted of picking boogers and playing Pokémon. I thought about this, and it brought up what we talked about in class dealing with magical realism. I was thinking that this first paragraph was the base of this idea of magical realism and that after this it would steadily increase in craziness.
ReplyDeleteI felt that Amy Tan did a good job expressing magical realism. I believe this because what Mrs. Gahan summed up is that magical realism should be confusing to you on what was real and what was imaginary. I felt exactly like that. The way Amy tan described the imaginary parts just felt so real to me that I had to look in context and also base it of common knowledge to determine the realistic and magical parts. The part that frustrated me the most was, “But the nurses, the doctors, they said to push him out, make him come. And when his head popped out, the nurses cried his eyes were wide open! He sees everything” (112). The reason this is so confusing to me is that I could actually picture the baby coming out looking as disfigured as it did. To me, Amy Tan did a beautiful job on creating magical realized because it made me nonplussed.
As I read the three stories in The Twenty-Six Malignant Gates, I began to see a theme of American ignorance towards Chinese culture. I noticed it first in The Voice from the Wall when Lena's Irish-American father casually points out: "She's [Ying-ying St. Clair] just tired" (113). This observation occurs as Ying-ying and her family eat dinner at the Gold Spike after even more trauma from the stillbirth of her second child. I get the impression that Lena’s father knows something is wrong, but he has no idea how to fix it. Again, on page 113, Lena narrates, “My father would come home from work, patting my head, saying, ‘How’s my big girl,’ but always looking past me, toward my mother.” This quotation supported my hypothesis as to his desire to restore Ying-ying’s less troubled mind, but he takes no concrete steps to do so.
ReplyDeleteAnother instance that corroborates my conclusion occurs on page 118 during the confusion of Rose Hsu Jordan’s origin. “She said it was so unfortunate the way the rest of the world was, how unpopular the Vietnam War was.
‘Mrs. Jordan, I am not Vietnamese,’ I said softly, even though I was on the verge of shouting.” This is a perfect example of the presence of American ignorance because, on Mrs. Jordan first meeting of Rose, she is too naïve to ask the origin of her son’s significant other; she merely assumes a country in the general region. I saw this to have a negative connotation because Mrs. Jordan could also be showing a lack of interest in her son’s spouse, or that she feels superior towards Rose due to a sense of majority vs. minority. Regardless of the instance, the theme of American ignorance is present within the recent stories, and I believe it shows Amy Tan’s desire to focus solely on the Chinese culture of the stories in order to enlighten us on several of its principles, for we rarely encounter this culture in our daily lives.
Throughout The Joy Luck Club furniture keeps appearing. There are tables, lamps, and chairs. Page 24 is the first piece of furniture that the reader reads about. Jing-mei is talking about her fabulous mah jong table that she took with her on her trip to Chungking. “My table was from my family and was of a very fragrant red wood, now what you call rosewood, but hong mu, which is so fine there’s no English word for it.” (Tan 24) But on page 26, she had to abandon the beloved table. The trek proved to be too difficult.
ReplyDeleteJing-mei was supposed to sit in her mom’s chair at the mahogany mah jong table. Her mom’s chair was the East chair. This mah jong table was next to a floor lame that looked like a plant. Its three lights looked like giant leaves. Jing-mei wanted to sit out of the first round of mah jong to watch and learn, but An-mei did not think that was a good idea. “How can we play with just three people? Like a table with three legs, no balance.” (Tan 33)
The downy furniture that Lindo was supposed to give to the Huang family got ruined in a very bad flood. When Lindo goes into the Huang house for the first time, she notices the furniture in the parlor first. “ Inside, the house held a different kind of pretense. The only nice room was a parlor on the first floor, which the Huangs used to receive guests. This room contained tables and chairs carved out of red lacquer, fine pillows embroidered with the Huang family name in the ancient style, and many previous things that gave the look of wealth and old prestige. The rest of the house was plain and uncomfortable and noisy with the complaints of twenty relatives.” (Tan 54-55) The Huang house was nice on the outside, and the parlor, which is the only room that guests visit. The rest of the house is gross and looks very lived in. “ Inside, the house held a different kind of pretense. The only nice room was a parlor on the first floor, which the Huangs used to receive guests. This room contained tables and chairs carved out of red lacquer, fine pillows embroidered with the Huang family name in the ancient style, and many previous things that gave the look of wealth and old prestige. The rest of the house was plain and uncomfortable and noisy with the complaints of twenty relatives.” (Tan 54-55) I think that this shows that Huangs care more about how they look and present themselves to others than how they treat other peope. They are pretty on the outside, but then their character shows through and they are ugly. On page 57, it is the wedding day for Tyan-yu and Lindo. The furniture was restored and given to the Huang family as the downy.
Ying Ying is moving lots of furniture to make the rooms balanced. When Lena gets home from school, she knows something is wrong. “I could see that some terrible danger lay ahead.” (Tan 108) Lena’s bed is also in a different position. She can now hear through the wall to the other apartment. That is when Lena started to hear the abuse going on in the apartment next to hers and had bad dreams and thoughts about it. Lena was also scared.
On page 116, the short leg of table is propped up on a Bible. Rose notices this when she is about to tell An-mei that she and Ted are getting a divorce. On page 131, Rose notices that her mom is paying attention to the Bible. Rose takes the same Bible out from underneath the same table and turns to the page in which Bing’s name is written lightly in pencil, thinking about her divorce. Rose may be getting back her faith, because the day that the Bible was stuffed under the table was the day that they lost faith. So if she is bringing the Bible back out, maybe she is reconsidering things.
After reading these stories in “The Joy Luck Club,” I get the impression that these women take great pride in their reputation and how they are perceived by others. For example, in “Rules of the Game,” when they are at the church Christmas party, Waverly’s mother, Lindo, repeatedly said that the gifts were all so nice, and they all cost so much. She punished her son for having “such bad manners he couldn’t appreciate such a gift” (92), and after Vincent got the used chess set, “[Waverly’s] mother graciously thanked the unknown benefactor, saying, ‘Too good. Cost too much’” (93). This could be seen as sincere appreciation for the charity, but when she gets home, she tells Vincent to throw it away. “’She not want it. We not want it,’ she said, tossing her head stiffly to the side with a tight, proud smile’” (93). This makes it seem like she just said that they were nice gifts at the party so that other people would think she was grateful for them, but in reality, the gifts are bad, and she’s too proud to have such beaten up things in her house. Also, she used Waverly to show off in the markets. She was boosting her own reputation by telling everyone that Waverly Jong, national chess champion, is her daughter.
ReplyDelete“Rules of the Game” is not the only story in which this shows up though. Going back to part one of the book, “The Red Candle” has many examples as well. In the description of the Huangs’ house, Tan used words like “seem important,” “pretense,” “gave the look of wealth and old prestige” (54-55). Lindo narrates, “The only nice room was a parlor on the first floor, which the Huangs used to receive guests… The rest of the house was plain and uncomfortable and noisy with the complaints of twenty relatives” (54-55). All this suggests that the house wasn’t actually important; they just made the house look like this to make themselves seem more important to others.
“The Red Candle” is Lindo’s story, so it’s possible that she got this feeling of needing to show off and making sure that others think highly of her from her arranged marriage in China. But wherever she got it from, it’s apparent that it’s extremely important to uphold a good reputation.
Our class had a lengthy discussion on the significance of the mother's in the stories we read, as well as the differences and similarities in the mother daughter relationship specific to each story. I'd like to continue on this theme, mainly on the role of the mother in the family. In each of the three stories we read (The Rules of the Game, The Voice from the Wall, and Half and Half) the mother's were a big part of the story. In both Half and Half and in The Voice from the Wall, the mother's lose faith and hope in life. At least that's what the daughters suggest. Rose Hsu Jordan even says, "But later, after my mother lost her faith in God..." (116). I, on the other hand, think that An-Mei Hsu never really lost her faith, both in her family and in her religion. Both Ying-Ying St. Clair and An-Mei Hsu lose a child in the stories, however there is a huge contrast between the way that the two mothers reacted. Ying-Ying completely gives up on life, and seemingly forgets that although part of her died along with her son, she still has a major part of her life, her daughter and husband, living on in the real world. An-Mei also feels the weight on her heart from the death of her son, but she keeps her spirits up and pulls herself together just for her family's sake. This does not seem like the attitude of a woman who has lost faith.
ReplyDeleteThe mothers and daughters have very complicated relationships in the three stories we have read in this section. In Rules of the Game, the mother is very overbearing, and tries to get too involved in her daughter's life. Naturally, Waverly Jong resents this, as can be seen from the section where she runs away from her mom in the market place. In the story that Lena St. Clair narrates, there appears to be little to no mother daughter relationship. After Lena's brother dies, Lena's mother basically becomes a recluse, even from her own family. Finally, Rose Jordan narrates her story, and she also has a very complicated relationship with her mother. The complications no doubt stem from the death of her brother, where Rose took all of the responsibility of watching the boys on the beach, and An-Mei just lounges off on her own. No doubt they both feel partly responsible for Bing's death, which is clearly the source of their complicated relationship.
"I know now that I had never expected to find Bing , just as I know now I will never find a way to save my marriage. My mother tells me, though, that I should still try" (Tan 130). This quote was from "Half and Half." I think this quote sums up what the mother is trying to tell her daughter. The mother wants her daughter to understand that there are going to be bad things that happen to her, but she can't give up; she has to keep trying. Her mother never stopped searching for Bing because she had faith that he would show up. She wants her daughter to understand that she needs to have faith in her marriage and to not give up. She thought that her mother had lost her faith because she stuffed the bible under a table, but she really had never lost it.
ReplyDelete"Better to lose less, see if you really need" (Tan 97). I thought this quote was funny because Waverly's mother didn't know a thing about chess, but she told her daughter she needed to lose less pieces when she played. The mother had many expectations of her daughter. I think this was because the mother wanted her to be the best. She pressured Waverly and showed her off, but I think this was out of love.
"She met a bad man. She had a baby she didn't want" (Tan 105). This quote cam from "The Voice from the Wall." The mother told her daughter this to protext her. In many of the stories the mothers tell their daughters about bad things so that they won't happen to them. In this particular quote, I think the mother is telling her daughter about what happened to her. The mother seems unhappy with her husband. They don't act like husband and wife. I think that when she came to America she was forced into this marriage. Something isn't right between the two of them.
All of these stories tie together because of the way the mothers treat their daughters. They want them to succeed and be the best they can; that is why they push them. Another theme in these stories is the way they think of America. They are constantly comparing America to China. "Chinese people do many things. Chinese people do buisness, do medicine, do painting. Not lazy like American people" (Tan 91). They also talk about "American Rules." These stories also represent one's individual strength and faith.
In this second part of the book, the stories are a little more complicated, perhaps because now we have to compare these stories with the first, and find a link. The best story I intendi, and that I can contribute more with what i was Intendo "The Voice from the Wall."
ReplyDeleteI do not think that Ying-ying St. Clair (or Betty St. Clair) was not crazy, and I think she wasn't paranoid too. What do I think, is that because of his loss of identity, as it is written on page 104, "My father proudly named her in her immigration papers: Batty St. Clair, crossing out her giving name of Gu Ying-ying. And then he put down the wrong birthyear, 1916 instead of 1914. So, with the sweep of a pen, my mother lost her name and became a Dragon instead of a Tiger", she eventually lost herself, and getting scared of everything. I also think some of the things she said to her daughter, were not madness, were a way to scare her and then she would not do that sort of thing. However, I think that after she lost her second daughter, in America, she got a deep depression and we can see that this had some bad references in her daughter. After Lena lost her brother, her father got a little bit crazier too, he definitely wanted that son too, and with that loss he'' stopped caring " his daughter in the same way he did before. Last but not least I think that Lena was kind of a wall between her parents. This can seem a little strange, but let's reasoning, her mother was from China and her father was a Irish-American, she have to live with both cultures, and Lena is the connection of her parents. While she comprehends her mother, she supports her father; she ends up being what keeps them together, and what separates them.
As we have read the last three chapters, I have found it interesting to compare the mothers with the daughters. It is astonishing the way the mothers are shaped by their Chinese heritage and how the daughters are completely different, shaped by the American way of life and thinking. This may sound stereotypical, but the mothers from China have a much more traditional and strict take on life, as opposed to the daughters born in America who are defiant and rebellious. Waverly Jong even goes as far as to share her embarrassment of having relation to her own mother when she tells her, "I wish you wouldn't do that, telling everybody I'm your daughter," (Tan 99). This is basically unheard of in Chinese society and maybe even in America. However, it would be highly unlikely for Lindo to say this to her mother. She is so devoted and respectful to her family in "The Red Candle."
ReplyDeleteThe question is this: are the daughters really so different from their mothers because they are American, or are they simply the typical teenagers? Well, they certainly aren't normal teens. Lena St. Clair was haunted by her grandfather killing a man by a thousand cuts when she was little, far from a normal little girl's thoughts. Waverly excels in a game that drives most people crazy: chess. And finally, Rose must be a bit crazy to see a mirage of her lost brother in the cave. In other words, I don't think these are just normal girls. They are not shaped by their parents, but they are crafted by the world in which they were born into. I know I am different from my parents, but most of their ideas still impact me greatly. These girls do not seem to possess any similarities to their parents at all. Rose even disagrees with her mother about faith in God. It is amazing how much the environment around us is the main source for ideas and ways of thinking, and the daughters in the novel are a perfect example of this notion.
My favorite story from this section of the book was Half and Half. It was surprisingly intriguing, and I thought that the Chinese belief in fate and a predestined future really came to life in this short story. The story first mentioned these too ideas when Lena shifts her narration from her relationship with Ted to her family's beach outing. When Lena tells us about her father's fishing and mother's cooking she says that their nengkan, belief in fate, makes them think they can do it. She even says referring to the nengkan, “ It had given them the confidence to believe their luck would never run out.” However, I think in this story belief in fate affects Lena the most.
ReplyDeleteLena, like the other Chinese-American daughters in this book, had been taught the Chinese way by her mother. I would have to think that her mother stressed the ideas of fate and faith when she was teaching her daughter. Her mother also made most of Lena’s decisions for her. Now to make my thought provoking point; I think that these two teachings directly impacted Lena’s ability to react and save Bing and to make decisions in her marriage.
I don’t think Lena should, but Lena could blame her mother for her lack of decision-making skills and her failure in the two defining events in her life. Of course there are other factors in why Lena failed when she needed to succeed most, but ultimately it came down to her Chinese tradition and way of living life. Because she never did anything for herself and always let the winds of fate blow her through life, when she needed to act, she didn’t and life kicked her in the butt. Lena’s story is exactly why I prefer the American lifestyle and free will thinking over the Chinese way of letting fate decide. Personally I want to decide my own fate so I, unlike Lena, will do everything I can to change it in my favor.
In my class discussion we often brought up hope, and how it shapes "Half and Half" in two ways. It shapes the way her mother still keeps her bible under the table and represents how even though he is said to be dead, she still holds on hope. In my class we talked about how in the "Voice from the Wall" the mother saw her baby die right before her eyes, but in "Half in Half" the mother never sees Bing so she still holds on hope. On page 112 in "The Voice from the Wall" Lena St Clair recalls her mother saying "This baby's eyes were open and his head--it was open too! I could see all the way back, to where his thoughts were supposed to be, and there was nothing there." This way pretty graphic and I realized why she would lose all hope and spiral into a dark future, but I couldn't help but feel differently about "Half and Half". On page 131 Rose Hsu Jordan tells her mother's story and how she still has hope. "My mother, she still pays attention to it. The Bible under the table, I know she sees it...there's a section called 'Deaths,' and that's where we wrote 'Bing Hsu' lightly, in erasable pencil. This quote showed me why the mother would hold on hope because she never saw her son's body so she wants to believe he is okay. In the end both women lost a child, and lost their faith to. But sometimes believing in something is better than seeing it.
ReplyDeleteAfter listening to today's discussion, I wanted to continue off with the story "Half and Half" (mainly because I felt as though I didn't get my point out). I mentioned page 121 where at the bottom of that page was a small paragraph about "nengkan", and how I thought that her parent's belief that nengkan could get them anywhere was their American dream. She thought that if she set her mind to it, she could bring Bing back. I liked the idea that even after Bing's death, Rose's mother still had hope, which was shown when she wrote the name of Bing in the 'Death' section of the Bible with a light pencil, just in case she could erase the name out of there someday.
ReplyDeleteAnother story I wanted to talk about was "The Voice from the Wall". Like everyone else, I'm wondering what it is that happened to Ying-Ying in China that her husband says he saved her from. I remember hearing the idea that she may have been raped (or something along those lines). I can see where the idea came from; when the man approached her and her daughter, and the Ying-Ying immediately try to protect herself, but cannot move. Whatever it was, it must have been terrifying, seeing how she says things as thought she is psychopathic.
While reading the last 3 stories in the novel, The Joy Luck Club, I noticed a recurring theme about expectations. In the story, the rules of the game on page 99, Waverly Jong's mother tells her "Better off lose less" expecting her to do even better at the game of chess than she had before. Although Waverly exceeded anything that her mother had imagined before, she still wanted her to do better. In the story half and half, Rose is given the responsibility of taking care of Bing while he wanders the beach. As hard as she may have tried, Rose could not save Bing from falling into the water. Rose's family tried to say it was their own fault because of the chaos that was going on in the moments before Bing was lost. But Rose knew it was her own, as she was the one who was expected to take care of him.
ReplyDeleteAnother theme I noticed throughout the discussion was the idea of making decisions. specifically in the half and half story, Rose was unable to make decisions for herself after what had happened to Bing years before. The fact that she had made the wrong decision would haunt her and cause her to fear making any of her own decisions. With her constant worry of making the wrong decisions, her life ends up being decided by the decisions that other people make for her. During our discussion, we talked about how Rose's mother wanted to hold on to the hope that Bing would somehow come back. Near the end of half and half, the story depicts how in order to always have his return on her mind, she always kept her bible with Bing's name written in it lightly so that if he ever was to return, it would have never been completely accepted that he was ever gone.
"He's going to fall in...Just as I think this, his feet are already in the air."(125) One thing that we didn't get to talk about in class today was connection between the two sides of "Half and Half". When I started reading the story, I thought that 'Half and Half' referred to her half Chinese heritage or something of the sort. But now I think it may be in reference to the two halves of the story: the cause and effect. The idea that we never talked about was that perhaps the two stories are connected in more ways than just the fact that her mom wanted her to have faith. Perhaps her whole life, she blamed herself for Bing's death even more than she let on, and this is what caused her inability to make decisions.
ReplyDelete"I knew it was my fault."(126) All her family members talk on page 127 about what they could have done differently that might have made things turn out better for Bing. But Rose knows in her heart that it's her fault. We did say in class that she wanted to go back and change her mind. She wanted to turn back time and tell him not to go to their dad, as if she could have possibly known he would fall off when she let him go. The only problem I have with this is that even though she admits it's her fault, she doesn't seem very convinced or willing to help try to find him. She says that going with her mom to look is a punishment, and thinks that what her mom is doing to rescue Bing is pointless. She has no belief in fate or faith. Bing's death is to her as the failed malpractice suit is to Ted. If Bing had never died, would her marriage have remained successful forever?
The Voice from the Wall was the story that interested me the most. I wanted to discuss Lena St.Clair more because she was one of the most unqiue and strongest chracters. I found it interesting yet disturbing how she could sense "unspoken terrors" around her. I don't think that mothers should show their fear or paranoia with their children because they are the ones who their children look up to. Lena St.Clair has a strong mind set because even when she was little she had to deal with the unsteadiness of her mother. "I watched, over the years, as they devoured her, piece by piece until she disappeared and became a ghost"(103). It seemed as though Lena was taking care of her mother instead of her mother taking care of Lena. Lena's father didn't seem to notice or care how paranoid his wife was. There was such a language barrier between Lena's mother and father that it seemed as though they weren't even married. It would be frustrating translating every other word to your parents. Why did they even marry in the fist place if they can't understand each other? This caused Lena to grow up fast than a child should.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Ying-Ying is fit to be a mother. The way she was acting when was pregnant by bumping into the edges of tables showed how unfit of a mother she was. Instead of taking Lena by the hand and running away or even shielding Lena from the drunk man, She "dropped my hand and covered her body with her arms as if she were naked, unable to do anything else" (108). I would think Ying-Ying would have have motherly insticts and try to protect the baby and Lena."I knew at that instant how sorry she was that she had not protected me better" (108). In the end, it was Lena who was the most concrened for the baby instead of her mother or father. "So I worried about that baby, that it was stuck somewhere between my mother's stomach and this crib in my room" (109).Lena had to grow up in slience after her mother lost the baby. The slience of her unhappy home forced Lena to become even more parnoid than she was.
As I read through the blog posts and my annotations in the recent readings, I realized that there is an underlying message of balance in the stories. In the Chinese culture, balance is extremely important. They believe that balance may determine one's fate (good or bad) in the real world. An imbalance in energy will cause chaos and bad omens to disturb their lives. I think that in the second part of The Joy Luck Club, balance is a prominent subject in the daughter's stories, yet many people may not see that.
ReplyDeleteStarting with the vignette, balance is introduced, but in a sneaky sort of way. “'Do not ride your bicycle around the corner,' the mother had told the daughter when she was seven. 'Why not!' protested the girl” (Tan 87). Looking back, I saw that this could be an imbalance in the atmosphere of the house: the mother is calm while the daughter is angry. This imbalance in emotion causes the girl to go on her bike and ride away. “ And the girl ran outside, jumped on her bicycle, and in her hurry to get away, she fell before she even reached the corner” (87). In order to fall off a bike, you would have to loose your balance somehow. The girl falling exhibits the Chinese belief about how an imbalance in an atmosphere can result in a disturbance in the real world.
In “Rules of the Game,” it was harder for me to find an example of balance in action, but I realized that it was in the mindset Waverly exhibits when she plays chess. For chess, it is necessary to have a balanced mentality of prediction, action, reaction, deception, and competition. Too much of one thing will result in the loss of the game. “I learned why it is essential in the endgame to have foresight... all weaknesses and advantages become evident to a strong adversary and are obscure to a tiring opponent...A little knowledge withheld is a great advantage one should store for future use. That is the game of chess. It is a game of secrets in which one must show and never tell” (95).
Lena St.Clair's mother (Ying-ying), actually talked about the imbalance in their house when she was pregnant in the story “The Voice from the Wall.” “She [Ying-ying] did not speak of the joys of having a new baby; she talked about the heaviness around her, about things being out of balance, not the in harmony with the one another” (109). Her mother literally rearranged their home to restore the balance. She felt that the imbalance would end up hurting her upcoming child, but it was too late. The child ended up dying during labor. Ying-ying ended up feeling guilty for her child's death thinking it was her fault for not restoring the balance in her home and letting the bad omens come into the home.
Rose's story “ Half and Half” brings the subject of balance in the form of a table and a Bible. Rose's mother, An-Mei, was a devote Christian. “As proof of her faith, my mother used to carry a small leatherette Bible when she went to the First Chinese Baptist Church every Sunday” (116). During that time, everything was going great for the Hsu family, everything was in balance and harmony. It was not until they went to the beach that everything changed. Rose's brother, Bing, fell into the ocean and drowned. After that experience, the balance of the Hsu family was off. It is represented through the table. In order to balance it, Rose's mother must put the one thing she depended on her faith, underneath it. This symbolizes how Rose's mother had to accept the fact that Bing was not coming back and she must move on. “ My mother had a look on her face that i'll never forget. It was one of complete dispair and horror, for losing Bing, for being foolish as to think she could use faith to change fate” (130).
The subject of balance are more prominent in some stories than others, and I hope that we can discuss it during class. I think that it is one traditional, Chinese belief that both the mothers and the daughters can see being exhibited in their lives.
There was something in class that we discussed about in "The Voice from the Wall" that I wanted to go into further. We had talked about how Lena St. Clair didn’t know whether it was worse to be where she was, surrounded by silence, or to be on the other side of her bedroom wall, surrounded by violence. I wish we had talked more about which side was really worse. I personally think that the Sorcis’ side was better because there was a quote that shows it was, “Mrs. Sorci was shouting and crying, 'You stupida girl. You almost gave me a heart attack.' And Teresa was yelling back, 'I coulda been killed. I almost fell and broke my neck.' And then I heard them laughing and crying, crying and laughing, shouting with love” (Tan 115). This shows that Teresa and her mom really did love each other, but they showed it in a different way which was through their shouting and screaming.
ReplyDeleteI believe that all these stories are about how the mothers have a different way of loving their daughters. As we talked about in class, some mothers are more overprotective while others are more lenient. I believe the reason why is because they have different ways of loving their children. For example, Rose’s mom told Rose in Half and Half, “You must think for yourself, what you must do” (Tan 130). This shows that Rose’s mom loved her in the way that she wants Rose to learn for herself what happens when she makes decisions on her own. She was a mother that loved her daughter in the sense that she was not too overprotective, and that she wanted her daughter to learn from her own mistakes.
Bing was playing at the reef and he was going to fall into the water.
ReplyDelete“And I think, he’s going to fall in. I’m expecting it. ” (133)
I think this is the biggest reason that she regret about Bing’s death. She expected that Bing falling into the water, which actually happened. She thought that she didn’t regret that much, if she didn’t expect Bing falling into the water and die. She thought expecting an unfortunate leads another unfortunate.
“And later, I discovered that maybe it was fate all along, that faith was just an illusion that somehow you‘re in control,”(128) I like this quote because this is the opposite of what she thought after Bing's death. This is what her mother taught her before. I think Bing could be dead even though she didn’t expect what would happen. I understand this, but I still don’t want to expect an unfortunate that might lead another unfortunate even I konw it's a superstition.
When I was reading "Rules of the Game," I saw Waverly Jong improve her chess game to a tournament level of play, but like most parents, her mom would often intervene, sometimes with useless information or aid. "'Next time win more, lose less,'" (Tan 97). She responded that sometimes you have to sacrifice certain pieces for the game itself. I can relate to this, as when I play lacrosse, my dad, who didn't even hear about lacrosse until we came to Collegiate, will often yell out to me on the field to do something totally random. For example when I have the ball running up the field in transition, he always wanted me to sprint 100+ yards, juking every player on the opposing team out, and continue to score a goal. If I ever even attempted that with some games we played, I would have probably been given a concussion, and a ticket to sit on the bench for making a bad decision on the field. This is similar with Waverly Jong's mother telling her how to play the game that she has never even tried out, but not only that, she wants to control her daughter in some way. This is similar to many of the mothers in this book, as they always are trying to control their daughters 24/7 to try and help them succeed, or in some cases protect them from the things they fear, from dishonoring their family to being a victim of the Twenty-six Malignant Gates. They put fear into their daughters' heads about how dangerous the world is, which isn't always bad, but sometimes they go over the top, like with Lena St. Clair. "Only then did my mother tell me about the bad man who lived in the basement... he was so evil and hungry... he would plant five babies in me and then eaten us all in a six-course meal, tossing our bones on the dirty floor. After that I began to see terrible things." Clearly this isn't true, but her mother started making her paranoid like herself from an early age, which can affect her in years to come.
ReplyDeleteEarlier today, my class discussed privileges. Waverly is narcissistic and immature. She has great talent; she is a wonderful chess player. Her mother has worked and sacrificed to give her opportunity, yet Waverly thinks only of herself. She knows she has talent, but she uses that to gain advantages and privileges for herself at the expense of her family. Saying she needed peace and quiet to excel in chess, she got her own room away from the noise, while her brothers slept in the living room. Her brothers, Vincent and Winston, had to do chores and finish eating their meals; she didn't. In her family, she was the chosen one.
ReplyDeleteThe person who helped her achieve her success but was at the same time responsible for Waverly's selfishness was one in the same person. And that person was Waverly's mom. Lindo had worked hard to giver her children all the advantages she had not had growing up. Waverly's mother had no chance to be a normal kid or to get a good education. Her education was learning how to cook good meals, how to sew, and how to clean. The goal of her "education" was to become an obedient wife. Because Lindo had to grown up so fast, she had no time for games like chess, so when she came to America and had kids of her own, she wanted to giver her kids chances she didn't have growing up. She wanted her kids to be important, be known for something, and not be forgotten and overlooked like she was. Fortunately, by trying to give Waverly every opportunity, she ended up spoiling her. Waverly became a wonderful chess player, but also a self-absorbed and calculating person.
There is a group of characters that I would like to explore more and that is the dads/husbands. There are two in particular that stood out most to me. The dad from "The Voice from the Wall" stood out because of his relationship with his wife and his calm demeanor. He was the father of Lena St. Clair. Lena St. Clair's mother had gone through a lot of things that really affected her mental state. She was very paranoid. Lena's father, on the other hand, was seemed so calm and carefree. To me it seems that he ignored the fact that his wife was crazy. Most of the story I wondered what was going through his mind. How could he be so ignorant and pretend that everything in his family is normal? How could he pretend to know what his wife was feeling and trying to say? I thought he may just be oblivious. I feel like his role in his family is more important than what was let on. He seemed to be the thread to which kept this family together and somewhat sane. He once said to his family "We are moving up in this world" (Tan 107) while talking about his job promotion. His daughter and wife did not seem as optimistic about anything. I wonder how he can be so positive when surrounded by people who are so scared.
ReplyDeleteThe other men who I found interesting was the husbandion "Half and Half". Rose Hsu Jordan's husband was American. He was blunt and opinionated which intrigued Rose. What made this mans story different was that he was sued for malpractice and that changed him. Before the malpractice suit he made all the decisions with confidence but after he began to second guess himself. He wanted Rose to make the decisions. One thing that I was first curious about is how he was so sure of himself. He said he knew he wanted to be a doctor since a very young age. I don't see how someone can make such an important decision and not change their mind even though they had hers to do so. I want to know what his parents told him that made him so confident. Also something that bewildered me was why his loss int he malpractice suit affected him so much. I feel like it was his fault that he and Rose were getting divorced and it made me think about all he was doing wrong.
Titles are the gates to a world of words. The Voice from the Wall is one of those many gates, and it is an explanation for the part of the beginning vignette on page 87. It reads, "But the mother sat knitting in silence...The mother still did not answer her"(87 Tan). I believe that this shows how even the silence of a wall can still have a voice. The voice from the Wall's story also connects with the title Half-and-Half. Lena had been half right about the arguments going on in the apartment next door and half wrong. The wall has a way of deception. In ancient China, the first emperor of China built the Great Wall to protect his subjects from northern nomadic tribes but to keep them in like the parents of in the Joy Luck Club. They build these walls around their daughters to keep them inside their own sphere of influence instead of being tossed into the world and being ripped apart. The Chinese mothers I believe are too protective of their daughters and want to teach them only their experiences.
ReplyDeleteWow. I could not be more impressed with these responses. Bravo, team.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the three stories and having the class discussion today. I noticed something that the characters could do; so that everyone learns a lesson, and bad things don't happen and that is meet the other person half way. "Do not ride your bicycle around the corner" (87) One way that this analogy could work for the "bicycle story" is that if the mother would have told her daughter to just stay on the street, or only go so far down the street instead of saying not to go around the corner. I feel that the daughter would listen and not have rebelled. This would have eliminated the mother supposedly being right about what she said, and all the daughter would have had to do is listening to her mom.
ReplyDeleteAnother way that this analogy could have worked is in "Rules of the Game" was when the mother was talking about, and showing off her daughter it made her daughter mad. If the mother would have known that the daughter was upset by her actions, I feel that the mother would have slowed down on the bragging and possibly could have just talked to the family about it. The daughter would have to do her part by not getting so angry that her mom was enthused for her and a very supportive parent. The last story “Half and Half” also could have used the analogy of meeting the other person half way. I feel that if Rose and her husband would have worked together on their differences in their marriage, their marriage could have been saved.
In my class discussion we talked more about "Half and Half" maybe because well to me, is that it was an interesting story. It starts from faith, to divorce, then to a family memory. From the first page of the story, it begins with a Bible on the floor, under a table, and why it's there. A quote from page 116 is,"My mother pretends that Bible isn't there. Whenever anyone asks her what it's doing there, she says, a little too loudly,"Oh, this? I forgot." But I know she sees it. My mother is not the best housekeeper in the world, and after all these years that Bible is still clean white." To me this means that her mother still has faith in some sort of way because if it left her completely, the pages would not be plain white. Also I think that the mother is trying to hold back her faith and not to show it. This quote about the mother's faith leads up to the third story in this narrative.
ReplyDeleteOn page 128, her mother is praying to God about her little son Bing, I have two quotes. One is,"I have always believed in your blessings," she praised God in that same tone she used for exaggerated Chinese compliments."We knew they would come. We did not question them. Your decisions were our decisions. You rewarded us for our faith." ;what she means by this is, yes I know the Bible is under the table, but I still have faith. Second is,"In return we have always tried to show our deepest respect. We went to your house. We brought you money. We sang your songs. You gave us more blessings. And now we have misplaced one of them. We were careless. This it true. We had so many good things, we couldn't keep them in our mind all the time.....So maybe you hid him from us to teach us a lesson, to be more careful with your gifts in the future. I have learned this. I have put it in my memory. And now I have come to take Bing back." The two quotes that I have just typed, they are saying from the mother is she wants her son so bad by praying for him, but also the last sentence of the second quote, it sounds like she is frustrated with God. What I mean by frustrated is 'why did he have to use Bing as a lesson and now they can't have him back'. On the last page (131), it was really heart felt because of what the mother wrote in the Bible,"On the page before the New Testament begins, there's a section called "Deaths," and thats where she wrote"Bing Hsu" lightly, in erasable pencil." To me I was so sorry for the mother by how they couldn't find him, but she keeps her faith by writing Bing in erasable pencil. It was sad because the mother was sad, disappointed about not finding him at the beach;telling themselves regrets, what they did shouldn't have been done and kept a more focused eye on Bing.
From the three stories in this narrative is all about decisions by making them and what they should have done instead. With the narrative girl and her ex-husband on how she didn't make any decisions for herself. Also this is my favorite story of the three stories we have read because it talks about your faith and making your own decisions, not following someone else's decisions or letting someone else making your own decisions.
I found in the chapter Rules of the game for the mother to be very arrogant and disrespectful to her daughter. I noticed in class other peoples views thought of the mother as proud and happy for her daughter. Yes, i do agree she was proud of her daughter Waverly for her chess expertise, but the snide remarks and constantly putting her technique down like she is loosing. As if it hasnt won all of her games already.The opening paragraph on page 89 talks about her mother when she was six teaching her the art of invisible strength. Such as winning arguements and recieving respect from others. All of these things relate back to Waverly playing chess and her mother determining her path in which she takes to get ahead on her winning streak.
ReplyDeleteOn page 99 when Waverly had the last taste of her mother putting her daughter out on display to the public just like a proud mother would, but Waverly snaps out of annoyance and stress. Which is compeletly understandable. Once Waverly says to her mother, "Why do you have to use me to show off? If you want to show off, then why dont you learn to play chess." Just whith that comment that bitter cold sharp silence freezes over her mother. That very silence is what drives every chinese household out of every story we have read so far. The bickering, fighting, and misfortune every family has faced they react in the wrst way I feel. With silence. Without resolving the matter or talking anything else. The chinese way is a thin line that can only be broken if something is spoken and with that you will lose your invisble strength. So by that no one speaks up.
My favorite part of the story "Half and Half" was the comparisons throughout the entire story. Rose always seemed stuck, whether it was deciding between good or bad, fate or faith, strong or scared. "I discovered that maybe it was fate all along, that faith was just an illusion that somehow you're in control" (Tan 126). This was my favorite quote in the story, because it seemed to shape her actions throughout the rest of the passage. I feel like Rose let life happen around her, rather than trying to make a difference.This is because she believed that she couldn't make much of a difference. This is my theory as to why it took so long to process Bing falling. "I'm expecting it. And just as I think this, his feet are already in the air, in a moment of balance, before he splashes into the sea and disappears without leaving so much as a ripple in the water" (Tan 131). I think Rose believes at the time that even if she tried to stop Bing, he would have falling in the water due to fate. The story made these subtle comparisons often. "I saw we were standing in the hollow of a cove. It was like a giant bowl, the other half washed off to sea" (Tan 127). I believe the title and quotes refer to the parts of life that can be controlled, and the parts of life that are uncontrollable due to fate.
ReplyDeleteIn the discussion today, I felt that our class changed the subject very often. One of the things we did discus was the fear in America that the mothers had. I then concluded that point saying it was an everlasting chain of fear passed down generation to generation.
ReplyDeleteSo why were they so worried? On pg. 124 Rose tells us about the Twenty-Six Malignant gates. She states "even though the birth dates corresponded to only one danger, my mother worried about all of them." I think this is a very important statement in the book because it later explains why they are so fearful in America. Since the Chinese lunar calendar dates are different, her mother couldn't figure out how to translate them. In China, they only had to worry about one danger and their nengkan, or faith, could control it. In America, they had many dangers and "she (An-mei) had absolute faith she could control it" (pg. 124). This meant that An-mei was constantly worrying about things in America. This got inherited by Rose. The day they were at the beach, she constantly was worrying about Bing. She would say "stay close to the wall, then, away from the water, stay away from the mean fish." This was now Rose's way of "learning responsibility" (pg. 123) and to show that she "appreciates what my (Rose) parents had done for me." (pg. 123) I think there was a large, negative result for this thinking. In "Feathers from a Thousand Le Away", the children were constantly told by their mothers not to do things, robbing the children of their childhood. The lack of childhood in China resulted in a lack of happiness and life in America."(the beach, and all of America) was full of wet shadows (of the past) and invisible specks that flew into our eyes and made it hard for us to see the dangers. We were all blind with newness of this experience," (pg. 122)
In class we talked a little bit about the rebellion shown in "Half and Half" and in "Rules of the Game."
ReplyDeleteIn "Rules of the Game" Waverly's brothers wouldn't let her play chess with them unless she had life savers. She rebelled by making her own chess board and learning how to play on her own. Also in this chapter, Waverly's mother realized how good Waverly had become at chess. Once she realized, she started overbearing her by pushing her too hard to succeed. Waverly rebelled to these acts by running away.
In "Half and Half" Waverly met a new American guy at her school. After their first few dates, Ted, the new American guy, took her to a family picnic to meet his family. Once she was there, she talked with Ted's mother. She told her that Ted is going into a profession where he would be judged by a different standard. She was basically telling her that she thought her ethnicity would ruin some things for Ted in the future if they continued seeing each other. Her mother also had concerns about her dating Ted. Her mother said, "He is American." She replied, "I'm American too, and it's not as if I'm going to marry him or something." She obviously rebelled in marrying Ted.
I believe when your parents or some person you don't like tells you not to do something, you ALWAYS want to rebel and do it. I believe as teenagers and young adults, we all have done that before because it just seems like human nature.
Amy Tan presents cultural clash as generational clash in every story of "The Twenty-Six Malignant Gates." In the vignette, the daughter questions the mother's authority, something unheard of in Chinese culture. This theme continues into "Rules of the Game" where throughout the entire story the clash is evident. "Better to lose less, see if you really need" (97). Waverly's mother is judging chess by Chinese rules even though it is an American game. In "Rules of the Game," even the symbol of the chess game is a culture clash because the mother and daughter use different rules to determine success.
ReplyDeleteIn "The Voices from the Wall," the culture clash is Italian culture exchanges between a mother and a daughter as heard by the Chinese daughter who compares the exchanges to her family. In Chinese culture, people express themselves through silence and subtlety. It is a culture where control is enforced through minimal words. Lena encounters a culture where emotions are all put on the table. "I heard them laughing and crying, crying and laughing, shouting with love" (115). This also flows through to the topic of love and acceptable marriage partners. In "The Voices from the Wall," the marriage between the English-Irish and Chinese woman works out great, they just have a hard time understanding each other. In "Half and Half," the marriage turns out poorly. The intended effect of the mother actually caused the couple to be drawn together inappropriately.
The intergenerational conflicts between Chinese immigrant mothers and American born Chinese daughters are woven into each and every story.
Though all the mothers and daughters are very different, there is a consistent thread that unites them-the daughters want to be American, but their mothers want them to remember their Chinese heritage. For the daughters, it's hard to understand. They have not had their mothers experiences, and children, especially teenagers, don't blindly follow their mothers tell them too. The daughters consider themselves to be full-fledged Americans. And why not? They were born and raised in America. But as I well know, coming from a different culture, that it's important to remember your roots.
ReplyDeleteI think Amy Tan brought up a very important social problem, portraying it simply and effectively in "Half and Half." Rose's mother complains about Ted, saying "He is American." Rose responds saying, "I'm American, too" (117). Let's face it-how often do we do this? All the time. People in this country refer to people with heritage from Asia as "Asians," even though many were born in the United States. But when we refer to Caucasians in America, we simply call them "Americans" rather than "Europeans". This has been the way for many years, but as our nation is getting more and more diverse, we should change the way we think. I want the first word people use to describe me as being "American", not "Indian", because I was born in the United States. I still remember where my roots lie and I know how important it is to remember them, so I am sympathetic towards the mothers. But I definitely understand Rose's position as well.
Note: I was unable to attend English class today so I don’t know the topics that were discussed.
ReplyDeleteChess is Waverly’s escape from her mother. Her mother seems like a control freak. She controlled nearly everything important in Waverly’s life until chess came along. The reason Waverly loved and became so good at chess was because she could control the play. Her mother had no control over the pieces on the board. “My mother had a habit of standing over me while I plotted out my games” (98). Waverly felt this was a threat to her chess; Even though her mother didn’t know how to play, she still wanted to exert her power over Waverly in some way.
Her mother said, “Next time win more, lose less. “ Wavery replied, “Ma it’s not how many pieces you lose. Sometimes you need to lose pieces to get ahead”” (97). This was a subtle clash of wills between Waverly and her mom. Waverly’s mother did not want her daughter to lose pieces or sacrifice like she did in life. Waverly’s mom had taken a huge risk as a child by blowing out the candles and didn’t want her daughter to sacrifice or risk anything. Waverly did not feel the same fear her mother felt about taking risks. She didn’t fear the consequences and just as her mother had, she risked losing everything to get ahead.
In our class we talked a lot about the mothers, and how the mothers discipline their childre; in all three of the stories from the Twenty-Six Malignant Gates had a different mother and different mothering style. In "Rules of the Game," the mother is way to agressive about her daughter's chess ability. Then in "Half and Half," the mother is way to nonchalant about her children at the beach practically letting her four year old son drown. The mother in "The Voice in the Wall," wasn't bad at first, but after the death of her son she pretty much goes crazy, and she doesn't take care of the children that she actually has.
ReplyDeleteOne other thing that we talked about in our graded seminar was about which mothering style was the best, being an absent mother, and not fighting with your children. Or being an over involved mother, and constantly fighting with your children, but you actually know their problems and can help them. The perfect mother has that great combination of the two. They can let the child have their own experiences, and they can learn from them. If I had to choose between the two I would choose the over involed mother, because at least your mother knows your problems, and you are able to vent about them to someone
In the story “Half and Half” narrated by Rose, the subjects of “fate” and “faith” were often brought up. We talked a lot about these two conflicting subjects in my class's discussion yesterday. Chinese belief is where most of the fate subject was brought up. Americans are more concerned with the faith. Rose’s mother, immigrating from china to America, is struggling between these two issues and is very conflicted. On one hand she wants to trust the chinese fate system because that is how she was raised and she doesn't want to let go of those beliefs. On the other, her new-found faith is pulling her in a new direction; her american bible taunting her from under her wobbly table.
ReplyDeleteThe title of this vignette, “Half and Half”, is closely related to the above struggle between fate and faith. Half of Rose’s mother wants the fate, and the other half wants the faith. The last line in the story makes me believe she found both; “On the page before the First Testament begins, there is a section called ‘Deaths,’ and that’s where she wrote Bing’s name in erasable pencil” (Tan 131). By removing her bible from under the table and writing in it and using it, Rose’s mother turns to her faith. But, by writing Bing’s name in “erasable pencil”, I believe that she is still holding on to her fate, hoping he will return. To me this last line shows how she is balancing, half and half, her fate and faith.
During class we talked about Rose’s passiveness. The similarities of how rose acted between when Bing fell in the ocean, and when her marriage fell apart. I wanted to expand on the conversation and defend Rose.
ReplyDeleteI am very much like Rose about how I respond to questions. I truthfully do not care, and I take the same stance as Rose when she answers back to Ted when he said she never makes decisions, “But it’s only with things that aren't important.” (Tan, 120) I agree that my opinion on where to eat is not important, or questions like them, but I also feel it is more. I say that I do not care because I am always searching for the right answer, the answer to make the other person happy; I say this whether I truly do care or not. I feel that Rose is doing the same thing, not to push off the blame, or to try to make Ted guess, but that she just wants to make him happy. At the same time, I feel her passiveness and “I don’t care” attitude was what drove Ted, it made him feel in charge, important, and helped with his confidence. It was when he was proven wrong by the malpractice lawsuit, that he fell apart. Ted started to question his confidence and his decisions, and in turn Ted started to question Rose; he did this not because he wanted someone else to have the blame and responsibility, but he did not trust himself to make the right decision. I do not blame Rose for the destruction of her marriage. After this point, I differ from Rose and her attitude on life.
I feel that with her always taking a back seat to life, and not making the decisions, she has become dependent on others to make decisions and make the important actions. Like when Bing fell in, or when her marriage fell apart, she just sat and watched. Her “I don’t Care” has led to a “there’s no point.” I feel that page 130 and 131 are the two most important pages in this story, Rose says “there’s no hope. There’s no reason to keep trying.” and she was returned with one of my now favorite quotes, “’Because you must,’ she says. ‘This is not hope. Not reason. This is your fate. This is your life, what you must do.’” (Tan, 131) Rose just sat and watched her life fade away in front of her. She never made any decisions or actions to shape her life; she waited for someone else to do it. In turn she let Bing die, let her marriage fade away, and hasn't done anything with her life.
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ReplyDeleteha
DeleteDuring the discussion today, I felt that the passage "a voice on the wall" was confusing. I feel that if we had expanded more on this passage and the magical realism in it, it would have been more clear to me.
ReplyDeleteI also feel that the system in which we have our discussion is unfair. I believe this because it is hard to get a word in. Our grades on these discussions are based on participation and I feel that some people are getting low grades or no grades due to minimal opportunities to speak. I feel that everyone could get a ten out of ten if we just went around the room and talked about what each person had to say about a certain passage or idea.
I appreciate your feedback, Charlie, but this isn't the place to voice these opinions--come talk to me instead, okay? This is a space for us to discuss TJLC.
DeleteSo what do you think about the text? This is your space to discuss. Take advantage of it!
DeleteIn our class, my group talked a lot about the Mothers and how their stories and lives effected those of their daughters. It was interesting seeing how things that happened in the mother's lives effected their children and families. My group mostly focused on Half and Half and Rules of the Game. Both of these stories are prime examples of a mother's hardships influencing and effecting their children.
ReplyDeleteIn my group's discussion, we talked about Rose in Half and Half's difficulty with making decisions. Someone in my group made a reference to page 131. The last line says, "One the page before the New Testament begins, there's a section called "Deaths," and that's where she wrote "Bing Hsu" lightly, in erasable pencil." This line incited a discussion with the class. It showed that there was still a little bit of hope for the family in maybe one day finding Bing. Rose and her family all regretted all the decisions they made in leading up to Bing's death, and I think that is why she struggles so much with decisions.
During the discussion yesterday we talked a lot about the mother and daughters relationship in the book. I think in all of the stories there’s some type of tension between the mothers in the daughter. The relationship between a mom and her daughter is very important in not only this book but in real life. The mothers have a hard time raising their daughters. It was so hard to raise their kids because the mothers were brought up in Chinese society.
ReplyDeleteThe mothers struggle to keep the Chinese heritage in their daughters but the daughters just want to be Americans. In all the stories the common theme is the mothers trying to make them be something they don’t want to be. I think the mothers want their daughters to be successful but I also think they want them to get through the same things they had to go through. I think this is wrong of the mothers and they should want the best to their children instead and wanting them to go through hardship as they did. In the story “The Rules of the Game” the mother pushed her too far and made her do more than she wanted. I think as a parent you should let your children led their own path nut just guide them along the way. I don’t think she meant to push her daughter too hard I think she thought wanted to be the best.
Yesterday in class we really focused on Half and Half and the Voice from the Wall. These are wonderful stories and we glad we pointed out the man points in these stories. One of the points we pointed out was that the mothers are over protective because they came from a rough life in china. For example, on page eighty-seven, the introduction of the twenty-six malignant gates, this stories talk about how the mother is over protective and how all pain will come outside their home. The mother’s child defers her and goes around the corner and she falls of the bike. This is example of how the mothers know best but is over protective. We as a class didn’t talk the Rules of the Game as much as the other two stories.
ReplyDeleteI really like the Rules of the Game because this story relates to the present day. In this story Waverly Jong wants to be someone and misunderstands her mother pride in her achievements. Waverly Jong wants her achievements to her own and doesn’t want to share them with her mother. “Why do you have to use me to show off? If you want to show off, then why don’t you learn to play chess?” (Tan, 99) This is a great quote that tells readers what the story is about and how it relates to the present day. It relates because many parents put a lot of pressure on their child to be good at what their child does. The child could do anything like basketball, football, or quick recall, but in this case it was chess. Parents also drive their kids away from them by showing them a lot.
My favorite story in The Joy Luck Club is The Rules of the Game. In the discussion I brought up a comaparrison between modern day "sports parents" and Waverly's mother. While many of my classmates thought that Waverly's mom was being too hard on her, I disagreed. Sure, Waverly's mother was tough on her but it was not meant to be mean, it would benefit in the future.
ReplyDeleteWaverly's mother wanted her to live the "american dream". By challenging her to be better in chess she believed that she could achieve something for her family. This is similar to the nature of american parents who live their dreams through their children's sports. They are sometimes pushed to the limits but it is all for the child's benefit. Waverly's mother was simply trying to push her daughter "Is shame you fall down nobody push you." Waverly's mother was making sure that Waverly left nothing behind, and led a bright future.
In our discussion we mainly talked about “Half and Half.” I want to expand more on how Rose’s story relates to Bing’s. When I was first reading the story, I didn’t understand why Rose decided to tell the story of her brother dying; I didn’t think they related to each other. When I got to the end I realized that the two stories did in fact relate to each other. In both situations—her brother’s death and her marriage, Rose saw all the causalities coming; she just didn’t react to them. In a way I think that this was part of her fate. It was like a lesson learned the hard way. After she realized she should have yelled after Bing and that she should have spoken up in her marriage, she realize that she should have faith in what her fate brings her.
ReplyDeleteThe topic of faith vs. fate was interesting to me. You can control your faith but sometimes you can control you fate by making choices. Rose made the choice to not speak up in her marriage, therefore making divorce her fate. But this also changed her faith.
The mother-daughter relationships have a very big impact with how they girls behave. A good example of this was the small section separating the first stories and the second. On page 87, the mother tells her daughter to not go around the corner, but since the mom can't tell show her the rule book, she goes anyway. This is depicting how when the mom wants the daughter to learn a lesson she has her learn from her mistakes. She warned her daughter and gave her instructions, but it is not her fault that she did not listen to it.
ReplyDeleteI really liked how this was in the middle of these stories because it reminds us of the relationships being showed to us throughout the novel. These mothers have a very traditional way of parenting. For example in Half and Half, on page 116, she makes her daughter watch over her younger brother so she can learn to be responsible. They teach their children to be independent and how to care for each other and on their own.
Note: I was unable to post on the blog last night do to traveling to California.
ReplyDeleteYesterday in our group discussion we talked a lot about how the Mothers were creating this constant fear of everything into their children. Also how faith was so important in these stories, but also they lost faith.
In the Story Half and Half Rose’s mom, had read the book The Twenty-Six Malignant Gates. This is a book was all about the danger that awaited innocent children. On page 124 Rose says “My mother had a superstition, in fact, that children were predisposed to certain dangers on certain days, all depending on their Chinese birthday.” I think this quote explains why the mothers are so crazy about these irrational fears. I think that what had to do with Bing’s death had something to do with the constant talk about these irrational fears because I think they jinxed it.
I also thought it was interesting about the different outlooks on mixed marriages between the stories The Voice from the Wall and Half and Half. In the stories The Voice from the Wall Lena’s mom married an English-Irish man, but when Rose wants to marry an American man it is frown upon. On page 117 Rose’s mom says “’ He is American,’” warned my mother, as if I had been too blind to notice.” This quote makes me wonder if Lena’s grandmother frowned upon her daughter marrying an American, yet just didn’t know.
In our class discussion, we talked about many different topics in the book, and made a lot of good points, but I believe that there are things in the book we still have to talk about. For example, in class we briefly talked about how Rose still believes that she can find Bing. We inferred this idea after reading that she wrote his name in her bible in erasable pencil. I would like to add on to this idea by mentioning the Chinese belief of nengkan. On page 121, Rose explains what nengkan is, and how it is important to her life: "He believed in his nengkan, his ability to do anything he put his mind to... It was this belief in their nengkan that had brought my parents to America."
ReplyDeleteI would also like to expand on our discussion about The Rules of the Game. We didn't really touch on this as much as we did on Half and Half. After reading the story, I had a sense that Waverly was trying to get away from her mother and her Chinese styles. She was achieving this by playing chess. For her, chess was a game with American rules, which her mother did not agree with, and it was a game in which she had her own choices. Her mother couldn't influence how she played the game, and this was Waverly's escape from her mother's grasp.
Going off of what Farah said:
ReplyDelete"I kept thinking my fingers would adjust themselves back, like a train switching to the right track."
I really like this metaphor. It talks about how she wants to just automatically be better without having to put any effort into improving her skills. I like how she uses trains and train tracks in the metaphor, because it makes it deeper. Not only does it speak about wanting to automatically get better, but it talks about how she is just a train wreck waiting to happen. Later in the text, she uses another metaphor that references train wrecks, so I think that it ties in nicely.