Next week, we will be discussing lots of helpful background and details that will help you understand what this play is doing and how it is significant, so if this weekend's reading either bored you or confused you, don't give up hope: this play is worth reading and knowing, I assure you. It's a classic for a reason: there's a lot going on here.
That said, you have hopefully gotten a good idea of what is going on in Thebes after reading up to line 280 (the end of Oedipus's long speech): the land and its people are diseased. Something is cursing the city, and as King, Oedipus is charged and eager to figure out what and why. According to Oedipus's brother-in-law Creon, they need to "drive out the pollution being fostered in this very land" in order to save Thebes from this terror. What is the pollution? Well, whoever killed former king Laius is hanging out in Thebes and needs to be purged and punished. Oedipus is determined to find him and make this right.
What we know--and what all audiences of this play know--is that Oedipus is the murderer.
This play will take on a ride as Oedipus searches for himself.
It's a great play, and I trust you will read it carefully and in its entirety. I also trust you will not read Sparknotes. YOU CAN READ THIS.
Okay, for now, I'd like you to respond to BOTH of the following:
1. What is your first impression of Oedipus? Write at least 4-5 sentences specifically describing what you think of him based on this initial reading and try to support your conclusions with direct textual references.
2. What questions do you have now that you have started this play? Don't just list the questions--discuss them in a solid paragraph.
As always, read previous posts before starting to write so that you can build upon (and not repeat) other people's good thoughts and insights.
Despite the truth and dramatic irony that the play’s description has already revealed, Oedipus being the true murderer, he is portrayed as a competent and caring ruler. From the moment he received word from Creon of the Oracle’s advice to reopen the case of Laius’s death, Oedipus began to address the issue directly. His order for the people of Thebes, “I decree the following to the people of Cadmus: whoever among you knows at whose hands Laius son of Labdacus was destroyed, I order this man to tell it all to me. And if the culprit fears this accusation, he should lose his fear and come forward, for he will suffer nothing worse than safe exile from this land” (224-232), demonstrates his urgency to resolve the curse looming over Thebes. More importantly, Oedipus understands the pain that the plague has imposed over the people, and he grieves not for himself, nor for a few, but for all residents of his city. “My poor children, what you desire is known and not unknown to me, for I see well that everyone is sick, and being sick still, not one of you is as sick as I am. For your pain comes upon the individual, one by one, to each man alone and no other, but my soul groans for the city, for me and you together” (63-70). This care for the well-being of his citizens is the most defining characteristic of Oedipus that makes him confident and caring as a king, and creates a superb first impression from the very beginning of the play.
ReplyDeleteAs I read, the most pressing question that came to mind asked why Oedipus included the clause detailing that he receive the same repercussions as his citizens should the killer be a member of his own family. Oedipus is the murderer, so by including the statement “And I pray, if he should be known to me and share in my hearth among my family that I suffer all that I called upon these” (256-258), he seals his fate and becomes the subject and victim of his own search. Did Oedipus include this to avoid suspicion from lack of punishment for himself and his family, or did Oedipus want to be caught, but in a more subtle manner? This question has intrigued in the reading so far, not only because it led me to question Oedipus’s methods for “catching” the criminal, but also because it set up an endless game of cat and mouse, where the two are one and the same.
From the very first line of “Oedipus Rex” to the very last sentence of his speech, every word that came out Oedipus’ mouth assured me that he is a compassionate, concerned and knowledgeable ruler of Thebes. A naïve reader would not have predicted that he would have murdered the former or previous king Laius. I was stunned at the news that he did kill Laius as lines 65-70 convinced me that he was a sympathetic ruler to his citizens. “…that everyone sick, and being sick still, not one of you is as sick as I am. For your pain comes upon the individual, one by one, to each man alone and no other, but my soul groans for the city, for me and you together.” When Oedipus uttered that his “soul groaned for the city,” I asked myself, how can a leader, who is concerned as much as to seek the killer, would do such a careless act?
ReplyDeleteAlthough that was the first question that popped into my mind, what extremely confused me was Oedipus’ speech. One quote that puzzled me was, “I order this man to tell it all to me. And if this culprit fears and come forward for he will suffer nothing worse than safe exile…But if someone knows that another or one from some other land is the murderer let him not be silent” (223-229). It was as if he had amnesia and started ordering terrible punishments for the murderer, which… will backfire eventually. What was he thinking? Why is he promising that he will find the culprit and chastise him when it will only hurt him? I found this perplexing, and I won’t understand why “he will fight for him [Laius] in this matter” when he is the one who committed the crime all this time.
Because he doesn't know he is the murderer! Ah, gotta love Greek drama!
DeleteOedipus thinks highly of himself and his city. He wants to help his city and therefore himself. “For whoever he was who killed that man would as soon kill me with that same violent hand. Helping that one, therefore, I am helping myself” (line 146-148, page 16). He is a very kind hearted and honest man. He is selfish because he says that the only reason he is helping the city is to help himself, and is always making topics about himself. But he is very unselfish for wanting to help the failing city of Cadmus. “I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul” (line 99-100, page 14). Here he is speaking very highly of the city, and is telling them that they are more important to him than he is to himself. “I will leave nothing undone” (line 152, page 16). Oedipus is saying that he will not stop working until everything in Cadmus is right and the murderer is exiled.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Creon know so much about the murder of Laius? All of the information that he gave made him seem guilty. If the one messenger was fleeing then how did Creon find him and get the information? If the messenger was fleeing, he would certainly not flee towards the city. Of course Creon would only tell the people of Cadmus that the messenger only told him one thing so they would not ask questions and then point fingers at him. He then says that every one should focus on the problem and not what they don’t know. “The riddle-singing Sphinx compelled us to look at what lay at hand, forgetting things unseen” (line 137-138, page 15). He is telling the people this to make sure they don’t think too much about the information and then synthesize it to put the blame on him. He wants them to trust him and go along with whatever he says.
After reading up to line 280 I can tell Oedipus is very passionate and willing to fight for his city. I think he sees his city as a reflection of his leadership and ruling abilities, so he wants to make sure Cadmus is thought highly of and he can be thought highly of. I think he genuinely cares about the people he rules and is a very honest person. In his speech he says "...if you are willing to listen to my words and help in this sickness, you may take as help and relief from your troubles" (line 212-214, pg. 15). What thought this want was that he was willing to ask for help from the public. I think this shows he can be very humble.
ReplyDeleteThe one question that comes into my mind is does Oedipus knows he has killed the king? From the reading I am pretty sure he doesn't know he is the murderer but if he does then why is making such a big deal about it? He is saying the murderer is going to have many repercussions and punishments which he would end up giving himself. I guess because it is his father he would be more concerned, but I don't see how he doesn't know he killed his father.
One clarification: Thebes, not Cadmus, is the name of the city. Cadmus was the founder of Thebes.
DeleteBefore I learned that Oedipus killed Laius, I thought of Oedipus as a caring, thoughtful king. At first, I still think he cares for the well being of his people, but now that I know he is the murderer the only word I can use to describe Oedipus is confusing. I can't tell whether Oedipus is aware of the fact that he is the murderer, and when I think of Oedipus, a number of questions pop into my mind, and I feel like this far into the story the reader doesn't know him yet.
ReplyDeleteThe obvious question that arises about Oedipus is does he know whether he is the murderer?. I think there is a more important question, however. If Oedipus does know what he did, then why is he doing what he is doing? In one of his dialogues, he says he will even curse members of his house with exile (I think). By doing this, he is condemning himself to this curse as well. This just leads to more questions, and I hope they will be answered later on in the story.
They will...but again, know that Oedipus has no idea he murdered his father. We will have to question his naiveté later, but we must trust for now that Oedipus is totally clueless to the fact that he is the murderer that he is condemning.
DeleteI think Oedipus is one crafty individual. He has either lost his memory or one of the best liars of all time. I believe he's a liar and is deceiving his subjects. I can reference almost all of the 280 lines that states he wants to bring justice to the murderer and stop at nothing to do it. I think his search for the murderer of Laius is a ruse to kill any leads and witnesses that could connect him to the crime. Oedipus essentially has a con operation setup.
ReplyDeleteThe obvious question that I have is why did Oedipus murder Laius? What was the motive? I personally think Oedipus killed him for power and his not such a noble hero as he seems. However, It could be just as simple as revenge. My other Questions is what did Oedipus do before he murdered Laius. Was he an adventurer, politician or a simple laborer. I think Oedipus must have been close to Laius so he must have had a job that required the attention of the ruler of the city.
My first impression of Oedipus was that he is a caring, compassionate ruler. "I would be willing to help you in any way... Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul"(12-13, 99-100). He seemed to really care about his people and wanted to help them as much as possible. His motives were selfless, and he seems like a strong ruler who addressed his people's concerns and wanted to strengthen the city. However, once I found out that Oedipus was the one who murdered Laius, I just got confused because he genuinely appeared to be such a good ruler and and kind-hearted person, but was he actually just a power-hungry man who would do anything to rule?
ReplyDeleteAlso, why did he put such a severe punishment on the murderer if he was the one who killed Laius? Did he know he killed him? It seems like he just forgot what he did or didn't realize the murder he committed was the same one he was trying to solve and punish.
My first impression of Oedipus is just in one word a good ruler. He has a pride of being a king and considerate about everyone first of all. “Tell me, and never doubt that I will help you” (4). “You are not one of the immortal gods, we know; Yet we have come to you to make our prayer As to the man surest in mortal ways And wisest in the ways of god.”(4,5) From this quote we can assure that everyone respects Oedipus nearly as a god. “I know that you are deathly sick as you are, not one is as sick as I.” (5) Oedipus always thinks about his city a lot and he understands everyone’s feeling.
ReplyDeleteMy question is before Oedipus saved everyone in the city from Sphinx what he was doing and where did he come from. Who are his parents which I think is the whole point of this story. There is nothing in the book until line 280 writen about his past. I guess that came from another city because he doesn’t know about how Laius died. But I’m sure that Oedipus’ past will be the key to open the truth.
Your last sentence is dead on, Misaki.
DeleteI can't decide if my first impression of Oedipus is negative or positive. Before I realized he was the murderer, I thought he seemed like an alright ruler. He says that for a while he has been feeling the collective pain of the city and has been wanting to find a solution. "For your pain comes upon the individual, one by one, to each man alone and no other, but my soul groans for the city, for me and you together. Hence, you do not wake me from sleep, but know that I have been weeping much and wandering many roads of the mind" (Lines 67-72). I think these lines show how compassionate of a ruler he is. He wants to help the city and find a way to bring it out of its current state. But once I learned that he was the murderer, I became very confused. How could such a caring and quality ruler actually be a murderer?
ReplyDeleteWhile reading, I was able to come up with many questions. The main one: is it possible to forget something as big as murdering someone? Maybe Oedipus is just in denial, but surely he has to remember killing a man. In the book it says that Laius was killed by a group of people, and it was clearly intentional. Where are the other people who killed alongside Oedipus? Did Oedipus kill them too to make sure that only he could become king? I think Oedipus just wanted power and it didn't matter how he got it. Maybe he forgot the past and only focused on the future with him as king. But even then, is there no guilt? He took a man's life, maybe more, so how could he be going on with his life if he still remembered killing someone?
My first impression of Oedipus was that he was a good ruler, full of compassion and empathy. But as soon as we learn that Oedipus is the murderer, my mind had to rewind and re-read.
ReplyDeleteOedipus says "For whoever he was who killed that man would as soon kill me with that same violent hand" (Line 146-147). I am questioning whether Oedipus really did forget that he murdered a man. If he did, in this line is he saying that he will essentially commit suicide? How can anyone forget about murdering another individual. Especially since he murdered Laius. I say this because he became the king after Laius was killed. Since Oedipus did kill Laius then there had to be some incentive (taking the throne) and with that incentive there had to be a plan. I think that Oedipus is going to fake his compassion throughout the book.
Great responses so far. Keep it up.
ReplyDeleteHaving read Antigone I have some background information especially regarding Oedipus' brother-in-law, Creon. After reading the first few pages Oedipus presents himself as a concerned, compassionate, and willing leader of Thebes. I feel as this is a cover for his antics like killing the past King of Thebes, Lauis. His involvement in the case and trail for his murderers is just to rid all suspicion of him being the true killer. The priest,Creon, and many of the other citizens of Thebes see Oedipus as their only resolution to the plague and investigation of Lauis' death. I think that once even a small intimation of Oedipus being corrupt surfaces, Oedipus will take extreme actions that he will learn to regret.
ReplyDeleteI also have some questions about the background and personal stories about some characters like Oedipus. Also since in Antigone,Creon was such a tyrant and maniacal how can he come off so sane and just in Oedipus?
ReplyDeleteJames, you may already know this, but chronologically, Antigone comes after Oedipus Rex. Antigone is Oedipus's daughter. So Antigone (the play) portrays life AFTER all the drama in Oedipus (the play) has unfolded. Not surprisingly, what you will read in Oedipus mentally and emotionally destroys many of the characters (like Creon). Creon is a very different person in Antigone than in Oedipus.
DeleteMy first impression of Oedipus was that he was a very caring, nice, and responsible king. The first time he speaks in the play he asks the Priest, "Why you sit out here, afraid of something or wanting it? So I be willing to help you in any way, for he would be hardhearted who did not pity such an assembly" (lines 10-14). This shows that Oedipus is not only kindhearted, but also he is responsible. He wants to take matters into his own hands, so that shows that he is a good king. But after I realized that he was the one who murdered Laius, my impression of him changed dramatically. Since I figured out he was the murderer, I do not think he is responsible anymore.
ReplyDeleteOne of the many questions I have is about Oedipus and how could he have forgotten that he murdered someone. I think that something happened to Oedipus where he forgot about what he done. Has Oedipus really lost his memory? Or is he just not telling anyone what he did? I have seen in earlier posts what my other classmates have said, and I have the same questions as them because it just does not make sense. How could someone act and pretend to be so nice, but really be a murderer? Is Creon possibly involved in this murder as well? I ask this because Creon had said, " that bandits fell upon them and killed him, not one man's strength, but the hands of many" (lines 129-130). I think that he might be one of the people that helped kill Laius.
Sophocles perceives Oedipus to be a very caring, responsible, and trustworthy King. Many Kings during that time were very power hungry and not very compassionate towards their people. However, Oedipus is perceived as the complete opposite. Just in the way that he refers to his people as "my children" shows how much they mean to him. Oedipus also shows how much he really cares that his city and everyone in it is sick. “And so I myself am become an ally both to the god and the man who died"(250-251). He is also responsible because he asks Creon to go looking for answers and he addresses his people that if anyone knows who killed the king to come forward.
ReplyDeleteThe obvious question that came to my mind when I read this was, was Oedipus in such a craze state, when he killed Laius, that he doesn't even remember doing it? Or, does he remember doing it, but now is very disturbed that he did it and by trying to ask the people to find the killer he is hoping somebody will take the fall for him and relieve his conscience? Also, how did the audience know that Oedipus was the killer? The people in this play worship the Greek gods, but they seem to worship Apollo more than the others even though Zeus is the main Greek god. Do they worship Apollo because he is the Sun god and their city is in need of light and happiness?
I believe that Oedipus, without a doubt, is a good and strong ruler. Even though he did kill Laius, Oedipus admitted to it and was honest about it: "And I pray, if he should be known to me and share in my hearth among my family, that i suffer all that I called upon these" (19). Loyalty and honesty are two huge factors in which separate a strong ruler from a weak one. By admitting he killed Laius proves that he cares about his people and his city more than his own well being; he puts others before himself, which is a hard thing to do. And when asked if the news from Apollo should be private or public, Oedipus replies: "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important than that of my own soul" (14); Sophocles clearly states Oedipus as a good ruler.
ReplyDeleteA big question that puzzled me while reading was that Oedipus tells Creon that he had never seen Laius before, but knew he was the old ruler before him - and then contradicting himself, later tells the Chorus that he killed Laius. This was weird because it got me thinking that Oedipus might have killed Laius to become the next ruler of Thebes; or maybe he thinks he can trick Creon, but not the Chorus because they know something that everyone else doesn't.
At first I thought that Oedipus was a great and strong ruler. But once I figured out that he was the killer, I had to go back. He says something that seems very hypocritical. "For whoever he was who killed that man would as soon kill me with that same violent hand" (Line 146-147) After I read this, I can to the conclusion that all Oedipus wants is to be king. Yes he is a great ruler, but that does to make up for killing a man.
ReplyDeleteMy first impression of Oedipus is that he is very compassionate about his role as a leader. Oedipus also seems like he's on top of things that go on within his rule and keeps up with the current situations. To me it seems like he does what's best for his people. Once I figured out that he was a murderer, I became confused and doubted my own judgment of who I had thought he really was.
ReplyDeleteThe question that I have is whether Oedipus is choosing to forget about the murder? Is he trying to relieve himself of a guilty conscience? Maybe it’s true that the mind works to block out what is too hard for us to remember.
My initial thought of Oedipus was that he would do anything for his city. After reading this, "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul" (99-100), I thought that Oedipus was a great ruler. I strongly reconsidered this after finding out that he was the murderer. He seemed more like a liar to me after figuring this out. Although, I still believe that he is genuinely worried about his people, and the disease that overcome the city.
ReplyDelete"For whoever he was who killed that man would soon kill me with the same violent hand" (150-151). I reread this after putting together that Oedipus was the murderer. This quote made me wonder, does Oedipus not know he's the killer? Or is he lying to his people? I wondered, is he the power hungry king his people would never see him as?
Oedipus Rex is either schizophrenic and cannot remember he is the killer, or he is a really good actor. I think he genuinely cares for his people, which may be one of the reasons he killed Laius. It is humorous that throughout this play Oedipus is searching for himself. “I curse the doer... And I pray, if he should be known among my family, that I share in my hearth among my family, that I suffer all that I called upon these” (Sophocles 19 247-253). This quote is a reason why I think Oedipus Rex is not all there. He just cursed himself! I wonder if this curse will be the cause for his fall.
ReplyDeleteI am trying to figure out the mentality of the person who would curse himself, his family, and his kingdom. As I said before, is Oedipus Rex all there? As Matt said, what is trying to get out of this? What is his motive? I understand killing a ruler, in a rebellion or for power, but to go as far to curse yourself? I think that this curse in the play will be his undoing. Just a general question, is “Chorus” one person, or a group of people? Also, just to make sure, they are not singing, correct?
We will chat about the Chorus tomorrow...but briefly, the Chorus is a group of people, but often one "speaker" will be elected to speak/sing on behalf of the entire group. And yes, they are singing!
DeleteMy first impression of Oedipus is that he is a very determined leader. However, he has trouble knowing what to do. He really wants to help the city with their poor condition, but it seems like Oedipus is just trying to find the murderer of the earlier leader. He should be tending to the city instead of trying to find a single murderer and seek vengeance. He also seems a little bit close-minded because of what he said on p. 13. He said, "I see well that everyone is sick, and being sick, still, not one of you is as sick as I am." This seemed very selfish because he was just caring about himself instead of the people. No one really cares if he feels for them, he has to actually do something about it.
ReplyDeleteMy question is: Why exactly would Oedipus order the entire city to seek out a murderer? I don't get how seeing out a murderer would help with a plague destroying a city, or how it would help bring back more plentiful crops. I know he's do so by the oracle, but is the oracle necessarily right?
My first impression of Oedipus is that he is a very genuine person and that he cares a lot about all his people that live in his kingdom. What I also got off of this reading was that Oedipus was a very direct person, I got this from his directedness from the way he was handling all the dilemma with what was going on with his people. “You seek, what you seek, if you are willing to listen to my words and help in this sickness, you may take as help and relief from your troubles.” (lines 212-214) this quote shows that Oedipus doesn’t want to waste his breathe by talking to people who won’t actually help and do anything to change what is going on right now, which shows how direct and upfront he is.
ReplyDeleteThe main question that I have so far is why did Oedipus kill the late king? I don’t really understand why he can say the stuff he is saying like “I should do or say to save this city.” (line 77) when it sounds like to me he is them reason why there is such a “sickness” throughout the country. I also want to know that the sickness is like what is going on that causes everyone to be in such a panic? I also want to know if Oedipus is good or bad because it seems like right now he is bad because he killed the other king.
Originally, I perceived Oedipus as a fake. Frankly, there aren't many great leaders that act solely for the good of the people throughout history. That's because (Ironically, I'm going to sound like I'm preaching something from Christianity) there's always some type of sin that dirties people. If the play is good, which I'm assuming it is after hearing many good reviews, than I believe that Sophocles will not fail to make the characters more human by making them imperfect and 'impure'. When Oedipus proclaimed, "And I pray, if he (the murder) should be known to me and share in my hearth among my family, that I suffer all that I called upon these", I felt as though that was an exaggeration. If it weren't for the notes on the side, particularly the one that states, "It is important that Sophocles characterizes Oedipus as a good king", I would 100% believe that he has a hidden agenda behind all of his actions; however, I do still believe that there are actions he will make that will only be for the good of himself (though I must admit it's instinct for me to not trust someone upon first meeting them).
ReplyDeleteOne question I had (and later partially answered myself) was why would Oedipus seek to bring peace to the kingdom though vengeance. Aside from his brother-in-law stating that it's what the gods dictated, what good would it do? I know religion plays a major role in people's beliefs, so that's probably a major factoring being played.
My first thought of Oedipus is that was a strong and powerful leader. I feel like he's connfused on what he is wants to do as a leader. He cant choose on what to do next in his ruling. He was a nice king that cared for the being of his people. I believe he wanted to be a king very bad when I found out that he killed a man. "For whoever he was who killed that man would as soon kill me with that same violent hand" (Line 146-147). This was when my thoughts of Oedipus changed completly. I no longer thought of his a good man. No man who kills someone for any reason should be called a good person for any reason.
ReplyDeleteMy Question is, why did Oedipus kill Laius? No one knows why he did this exactly. In my opinion, i think he killed Laius so that he could get more power to become ruler.
My first impression of Oedipus is that he is a good king and someone who cares about the people of his kingdom, it became clear to me when he says, "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even that of my own soul"(lines 99-100). But after discover that Oedipus was the one how killed Laius I do not think he can do what is the best for his people.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest question I have in my mind now is how he could have killed someone and not remember? Or what state he was to not know who he was killing? I think it all comes from his past, and after finding out where he came from we can understand why he did it.
"Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul" (14). After reading this line I thought that Oedipus cared a lot about his people. He wanted to help them and save the city from all of the horrible things going on in it. "I become a citizen among citizens" (18). Oedipus is saying he can relate to the people and understand what they are going through. I thought Oedipus was a caring and compassionate person until I realized that he was the murderer.
ReplyDeleteThe main question that came to my mind was does Oedipus know that he killed Laius? Oedipus keeps talking about all of the punishments he's going to give to the murderer, but HE is the murderer. So is he going to do that to himself?
After completing the reading assignment, deciding whether or not I was a big fan of Oedipus was complicated for me. I came to the conclusion that he truly cared about his people and cherished his control. Beginning on line 64 he says, "for I see well that everyone is sick, and being sick, still, not one of you is as sick as I am"(13). I feel as if he was hoping for some sympathy from the people and wasn't acting brave and courageous during a vital time of need. The priest says on line 44, "And now, Oedipus, greatest in the eyes of all, we who are here as your suppliants beseech you to find some defense for us..."(12). This proved to me that although Oedipus did indeed kill a man he is still a powerful authority and there is hopefully a good reason behind it.
ReplyDeleteMy main question so far is what was Oedipus's main reason for killing Laius? So far I feel like Oedipus really wants whats best for his people and if killing Laius was what was best then he did it for a valuable reason. Although, killing someone should never be an option. Also, like Anne said, I would like to know what disease has all the people in town in panic?
From Anastasia:
ReplyDeleteMy first reaction was just like everyone else's: Oedipus is a compassionate ruler who would go out of his way to help out his land and people. "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul" (14). So Oedipus is a good guy, right? Wrong. Oedipus is, in fact, a muderer who is playing the good guy. I can't say that the 'plot twist' surprised me, but I hope it turns out to be a good story because right now I feel it's going to be predictable.
My only question is why Oedipus has such a severe punishment for the criminal. He knows perfectly well that he could be caught. Is that why he is playing 'Mr.Nice-Guy'? Or does he genuinly care about his kingdom, and he doesn't think he would ever be suspected of such a crime?
From Mary Peabody:
ReplyDeleteOedipus seems like a great ruler. He is close with his people and really cares about them and his city. These lines between Creon and Oedipus make the reader and people believe that he has nothing to hide: "Creon: If you wish these people nearby to hear, I am ready to speak, or should we go inside? Oedipus: Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul" (14). Even though he knows the new is good he still takes a chance my having Creon read it to everyone. It is good that his people take
My biggest question is why did he kill Laius? He seems to care so much about his city and people. In the reading he talks to the Priest and others about what he will do to the murderer and how they will fix the pollution in the city. However, he was the one who did it! How can he lie to his people?
My first impression of Oedipus is that he is very tricky. Because I know that Oedipus is the murderer, I am very confused by what he says throughout the first couple pages. It almost sounds like he wants to get caught for committing the crime. Not only does he want to get caught, I believe that he actually wants to get punished and suffer for doing it. "And I pray, if he should be known to me and share in my hearth among my family, that I suffer all that I called upon these" (19). Other than the fact that he is a murderer, I think that he is a ruler that is trying to do a good job. Regardless of whether or not he tells the people he rules of his crime, he is comforting them by assuring that the culprit will be caught and punished.
ReplyDeleteThe only question I have so far concerns Oedipus's mental state. I'm not sure whether or not he realized he killed the king. Maybe he blacked out, or doesn't remember it after the fact. At the moment, I'm not sure if he had anything to gain from killing the king, other than the throne, but I am sure more will be revealed as I progress through the book.
At first, Oedipus seems like a good king and cares for his city driven by "the fire-bringing god, most hateful disease" (12), however he does place himself above all and is very confident. After knowing that he killed Laius, my perspective is changed to him being a very sick man. The whole speech he gave was a set-up to find out if anyone knows about the murder so he can kill them.
ReplyDeleteQuestions: Why did the gods punish the whole city? Did Creon partake in the murder? Will the crowd have any information/knowledge on the murder?
The Greek myth of Oedipus has stifled me every time I read it. This is the first time I have read the play and feel like I see Oedipus in a new light. He sees himself as a normal person, and does not hesitate to find the truth. On lines 236-238, Oedipus puts himself at the level of the common man by saying," But now, since here I stand, the latest come, a citizen to citizens, I speak to all the sons of Cadmus" (15 Sophocles). Oedipus shows that he is not afraid of shedding the title of king when addressing his person, which earns immediate attention. I always thought of ancient kings acting as if they were above the common person; however, Oedipus puts that down quickly. He talks to his sickened people and asked for help, a unified city of brethren, trying to cure their home of death. On pages 10-11, Oedipus and Creon go back and forth like a witness being questioned. Every question Oedipus asked was answered with tips, which he used to find how his father died. I applaud his investigative skill.
ReplyDeleteI would love to know why did Oedipus agree to marry an old queen. Did she not tell him about her past husband, the man he killed? As a wife, she must have been heart broken when she found out her husband had been killed, and then this young guy swaggers in, kills a monster, and she is offered as a wife to him as a queen to his now new kingdom. I just cannot fathom the thought.
h
ReplyDeleteMy first impression of Oepidus was of how intelligent he was. People saw him as a good leader and almost as a hero. Then, when I found out that Oepidus killed Laius, my opinion on him quickly changed. The book became a little more confusing in the sense that Oepidus wasn't the good guy, but was actually that bad guy. Oepidus says, "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul,"(14). Making him seem like a selfless hero, when in reality he was a killer.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why Oepidus is playing it off as if he didn't murder Laius. He states all the ways he's going to punish the person that did in fact killed Laius when it was him all along who committed such a crime. Why is he acting like it wasn't him when it actually was?
I think Oedipus is a manipulating person. He is searching for the killer who is actually himself. He tricks his people into believing it was not him, I do not think a strong ruler what do this to their people. As much as I wanted to believe he cared and was a good ruler, I do not think he is what is best for Thebes. "For whoever he was who killed that man would as soon kill me with the same violent hand" line 150-151.Oedipus is lying to the people here to get his own advantage.
ReplyDeleteMy question is why he would order a search for the murderer? He knows he was the murderer and so it is probable that he could be caught which would result in harsh punishment. I also wonder why he killed the previous king. If he cares so much about his people as he claims, killing the king would not be a smart choice.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOedipus, in my opinion, seems like a genial king. He is legitimately concerned for his people, and he helps the priests pray for the people. I think this "curse" is a disease that won't go away. "O children, wailing loud, ye tell me not Of woes unknown; too well I know them all, Your sorrows and your wants. For one and all Are stricken, yet no sorrow like to mine" (Sophocles 8). Oedipus shows that he is suffering too. Some kings would give themselves better living conditions, or better food supplies than their people, but Oedipus suffers with them.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why Oedipus would kill the king. I thought he was the nice king who felt with his people, but then you learn that he did that.
After reading up to line 250, I thought that Oedipus is a loyal king and unselfish person because he wants to say the people of Thebes from this curse. “Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul” (line 99-100). He cares for his people as every king should. Line 251 is the point when we find out that Oedipus himself the murder, becomes the agent of his own destruction through his own curse. After I read this I was confused and I felt that he lied to his people.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading up to page eighteen, many questions came to me. One question that I can’t wait to find out if the people of Thebes are going to find out about Oedipus killed Laius. If they do I want to find out what is there reaction to this. Are they going to banned him or kill him for lying to them.
I thought at first that Oedipus was going to be some king that changed the way people thought of Greek mythology. "Oedipus, greatest in eyes of all." (Lines 43-44) He seems like a king that people look to as their protector. When Oedipus says "For I see well that everyone is sick, and being sick, still, not one of you is as sick as I am. For your pain comes upon the individual, one by one." (Lines 65-70) He seems like he is always trying to do what is best for his people and that he thinks he has a really hard life. I almost got the feeling that he was a bit of a tricky guy. I feel that there is something that we don't know about him that we are going to find out about him that will change the way his people think and look at him. I get the feeling that Oedipus is going to do something crucial is going to happen in the next few pages that is either going to get him in some trouble, or make him not a king anymore, or something along those lines.
ReplyDeleteThere were a couple of things that were running through my mjind while I was reading this play. I was a little confused on how Oedipus murdered King Lauis. I know that he was for sure the one that murdered him, but I don't quite understand how he did it. "My Lord, once Lauis was our leader in this land, before you came to govern this city." (Lines 110-111) Oedipus goes on to say thaty he has never seen the King, but he ends up killing him. I dont understand how that's possible? That is where I think he can get very tricky. It seems like he is trying to trick people into thinking that is not the person that he actually is.
The first word that came into my head when I read about Oedipus was altruistic. He seems very genuine and caring about the people in his kingdom and the people around him. On page 13, Oedipus says,"but my soul groans for the city, for me and you together." He is talking to children, and it shows that he has the ability to ease the mind of children and tell them he is feeling whatever they are feeling at that moment.
ReplyDeleteThere was only question that really puzzled me. Why would Oedipus go to that extreme in order to catch this one criminal? Why couldn't just give a bit more time and eventually he would be caught by someone, right? I felt a sense of urgency in him at that moment.
His kingdom, Thebes, is suffering from disease and death. He is eager to stop this plague from continuing to torment his city.
DeleteWhile Oedipus is without a doubt a strong leader, I question his motives and what is going on inside of his head. As Cole said, I agree that he felt more important than the rest of his people and was sometimes a selfless man. I believed in his ruling and leadership until discovering he murdered Laius. I feel that Oedipus could be a lover of attention, seeking it even from such terrible things like murder. "And I pray, if he should be known to me and share in my hearth among my family, that I suffer all that I called upon these" (19).He is letting it be known that he did this thing and what for? For attention. I wonder how the people will feel about his murder and also how Oedipus continues to carry himself afterwords. Will this break him down? Or strengthen Oedipus as a leader?
ReplyDeleteDramatic irony. The story of Oedipus would have been very familiar to Greek audiences.
DeleteThe first thing I thought about Oedipus was that he was proud. He does seem to care about Cadmus and the people of Cadmus. He says, " I ban this man, whoever he is, from all land over which I hold power and the throne" (line 235).
ReplyDeleteHow does the audience know that Oedipus is the murderer? Oedipus seems like he doesn't know he is the killer. What gave it away to the audience?
Oedipus in my opinion is extremely naive. His actions show that he cares for his people but I think he is easily persuaded and is not a very smart ruler. Oedipus is very generous and willing ot do anything for his people and I believe he is an effective ruler that can command a crowd of people. But Oedipus believes to strongly in the oracle and he over thinks things.
ReplyDeleteWho is Laius?
Will Oedipus get his city back to normal?
As a king, I find Oedipus to be a king dedicated to his people. But, Oedipus obviously knows that he killed Laius, so when he says, “Where on earth are they?"(Line 115) shows that he is not willing to sacrifice his crown and the throne for his people or he is senile in believing he did not commit the crime. I found it funny when he said, "not one of you is as sick as I am,"(line 66) because when he said this he had no idea how much this plague is going to revolve around him.
ReplyDeleteHow do the people not know of the crime the king committed?
It said, “They died [messengers], except one” (Line 125). How could the person who witnessed Oedipus crimes let his reign continue?
I think he is either scared of the consequences if he confronted the king of his crime or he did not recognize that the person who killed Laius was Oedipus. This idea is what keeps me reading because I want to see this person take a stand against the king.
Great point about the witness of Laius's murder, Daniel. This person has clearly been living with a terrible secret and burden for years...
DeleteOedipus is either a very good actor or completely insane. If Oedipus is acting through these first 280 lines he is doing a very good job. He spoke to his people with his heart and he seemed like a very strong leader. Oedipus sounded like he was trying to help his people, but I think he was just putting on a show trying to lead them in the wrong direction. Oedipus could also be insane. If he was insane he would have been in denial of his horrible acts. Oedipus may have many things wrong about him, but I think he is truly devoted to his people. On line 69, Oedipus says that his "soul groans for the city, for me and you together. That is just one of Oedipus' quotes that show how he is a dedicated leader.
ReplyDeleteHow does the whole city know that Oedipus killed Laius? Why would Oedipus put a curse on himself? On lines 255-260 Oedipus says that he will suffer if he knows who the killer is and does not exile them. How would finding a killer help save a city from a plague? On lines 110-113 Creon says that the city will be saved " by driving a man into exile, or undoing a murder with murder again, since this blood shakes our city like a storm."
He is either acting or insane--or completely in the dark about the truth of his own identity and actions. He is naive--and what he doesn't know WILL come back to bite him.
DeleteMy first impression of Oedipus was that he was cunning. I thought that he already know that he killed his father and that he was just acting to make himself look innocent and trustworthy. "Speak to everyone, for I consider their pain more important even than that of my own soul," (Sophicles 14). Worried that someone will find out about his crime committed, he tries very hard to build a guise of deceit by gaining the trust of the people of his new kingdom.
ReplyDeleteWhy did he kill his father? And what would he gain for doing it?
Oedipus, at first, is a king genuinely concerned with his kingdom. He asks his people the problem in which he wants to solve. As our reading progressed and we learned more about Oedipus, I started to realize that my first look at him may be wrong. I then saw him as more of a man, hiding behind a mask of tragedy trying to look innocent.
ReplyDeleteMy main question, as is the main question for many of my classmates, is why did Oedipus kill Laius? Was it a power play or did he just have a grudge against the guy? It's either Oedipus wanted the crown or their was a dispute involved.
-McKenna Poe
Oedipus is a king that is for his people. He wants to find the reason why the previous ruler Laius had been killed. Oedipus is seen as a god among humans in is kingdoms eyes "best of mortals" (12) "we judge you the first of men". (12)I think that he is willing to find the killer of Laius because he secretly knows that he killed him and if he looks like he is trying to find the killer he himself will not be judge to be the killer.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Oedipus kidding himself? He knows who the killer is! Himself. If Oedipus is the ruler, or king then why doesn't he get someone else or hire somebody to look for the killer? He's hiding something, and is trying to cover it up.
I found Oedipus to be a strong loyal leader from the start. He managed to keep his personal life from getting in the way of his rule. On page 17 though Oedipus begins to question who killed Laius and demands to find out to properly punish him or her who did so. I found this ironic because Oedipus eventually becomes a murderer himself in order to marry his mother. I think Oedipus begins to et por examples for his people and starts bringing his personal life into his rule, which should not be done.
ReplyDeleteI am beginning to question Oedipus's intention on killing his father and marrying his mother because at first he doesnt realize that he married his mother and that he killed his father. That makes me question his emotional imbalance as to which he is phsycologically okay.
-Amy Cory
I thought that Oedipus was genuinely concerned for the people of Thebes. He constantly says how he wants to help his people. "Your pain torments each one of you, alone, by himself—by my spirit within me mourns for the city, and myself, and all of you." Oedipus is also very arrogant. When he enters, he says, "Here I am, myself world-famous Oedipus."
ReplyDeleteI was also wondering how Oedipus killed a man and did not think that it could have been Laius. He even curses the murderer and swears to find him. Oedipus even asks on page 11, "But how could a robber reach such a pitch of daring—to kill a king? Unless there had been words—and money—passed between him and someone here in Thebes."
Great quotation to use here, Manuel--your points are insightful and helpful!
DeleteI thought Oedipus was an effective leader. This conclusion was made because of his explanation of the punishment of the murderer. But Oedipus is also uneducated in the sense of the destiny he has and what to do about what Apollo has said about the murder of Laius. I also think that Oedipus has become dependent to the oracle's word.
ReplyDeleteHow will Oedipus restore his city?
I found Oedipus to put on a very good show. I would not question Oedipus to be the killer at all is I didn't already know he killed him. I question Oedipus' beliefs in his gods, he whishes bad luck for the killer yet, he is the killer. Besides the obvious of killing, Oedipus seems like a good king. Oedipus seems to connect to the people and have a relationship with them, and truly care about his kingdom. I question the man who saw the killing, it seems strange that he did not recognize Oedipus and say something. I also wonder where Creon comes in, Creon seems to be very close to Oedipus and I wonder if Creon also had something to do with the killing.
ReplyDeleteOedipus is a very enthusiastic ruler, and he wants the best for his people. He says that his people's pain is as important to him as his own soul's pain. Oedipus is willing to do anything so that his people don't suffer. "I curse the doer, whether he worked alone or evaded us with accomplices that he wear out his unlucky life" (19). Here Oedipus is ready to make the person who is causing all of the pain in the city suffer worse than everybody else, but he doesn't know that he is the pollution in the city
ReplyDeleteThe first question that came to my mind is how Oedipus is going to react when he realizes that he killed his father and married his mother, and that he is actually causing all of the pain and suffering of his people even though he wants the best for them. "He should lose his fear and come forward, for he will suffere nothing worse than a safe exile from this land" (18). He doesn't realize that he is going to be exiled.
I thought Oedipus was a very effective ruler in how he addressed all of his subjects. He was a very honest leader, despite being in the situation he had. He believed that taking measures against the person who committed the crimes would help his people, but at the time he was unaware that this would lead himself being the person accused. At the time, h did not know that he was adopted and was unaware of his true background. Before he discovered that he was in fact the one to blame, he would realize that the truths he had thought he was telling were actually far from the real truth. Although being a very successful and powerful ruler over his people, his misinformation would eventually lead to his downfall.
ReplyDelete*since this is late, you answered most of my questions and concerns about oedipus in class, but I will write this as I would have if I had done so over the weekend*
ReplyDeleteOedipus first comes across to me as an overall involved ruler, but a snobby one. When his city is wracked with plague and misfortune, he takes matters into his own hands by sending Creon to ask Apollo what he has done wrong. On the other hand, he doesn't leave the comfort of his palace and go himself, and when the townspeople say they are suffering, he tells them he is suffering even more (line 66), although the people are dying in the streets while he is safe and warm in his palace.
Why did Oedipus kill his father? Why did he say that if the murderer was one of his own kin, the punishment would remain the same, all the while knowing that he was the true killer and would pay the price for his actions later on? Why would he want to have children with his mother? And most importantly, how does someone not know that they have killed their father?
Oedipus is either very compassionate or thoroughly enjoys the love and adoration of his people, which he earned by saving the city from the Sphinx. In his very first speech in the play, he says "So I would be willing to help you in any way, for he would be hardhearted who did not pity such an assembly" (10-15). The priest of Zeus in return tells Oedipus how many people are sitting at his "altars," which shows how respected he is by his people, almost in a god-like manner. Oedipus, of course, would not want to lose this reputation. In fact, he says that he is the one who is in the most pain because he is seeing his people suffer.
ReplyDeleteI know the basic story of Oedipus, but I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out. He has already killed his father, but how does he come to marry his mother? Is it before or after he hears the prophecy?
From Daniel:
ReplyDeleteOedipus strikes me not as a compationate leader, but as a humble one. He does not see himself above his subjects but instead tries to find level ground with them. He remembers his roots and remembers what it was like not to have power; and as his people begin to struggle he is alongside them, for he has not forgotten the days that he too was sunject to harshness. "I become a citizen among citizens... I shall fight for him in this matter, as if for my own father, and I shall try everything, seeking to find the one who comitted the murder" Oedipus is putting his own safety aside for the sake of helping the people.
My main and only question is why did he even come to Thebes in the first place
I am very confused about this play. After listening during the class the past three days, I am still unsure about if Oedipus is the murderer or not. I believe Mrs. Gahan said that Oedipus is the murderer, but he just doesn't know it. That brought a question into my mind. How can Oedipus forget that he murdered someone? It doesn't seem like something even a serial killer would forget. Even thought this book is very confusing thus far, I am still looking forward to finishing the book, and putting all the pieces together in order to figure out who did what.
ReplyDelete